delicate subject - abortion

marywooyeah

*max* wrote: »

The "abortionist"? Really, you make it sound like some 19th century back alley story. You have to stop thinking in terms of what "happened to you", because it didn't come out of nowhere. Nobody kidnapped you, tied you to a chair and did this to you.

Maybe you were being mentally abused. I don't know, you certainly sound like there is something wrong there. But you have to stop laying the guilt on everyone else. If you were abused, then blame your abusers - don't blame the medical practitioners. If you had said no, they wouldn't have done it, to be blunt.

Seriously, i think you are better off this kind of thread.

You were not there, you do not know what happened.

I DID say I didn't want an abortion repeatedly, I expressly said more than once that I wanted to keep my baby, that I had named my baby and needed help keeping the baby. I had the anathestic needle put into my hand with no one asking me let alone told me that they would do it - I tried to sit up and felt sleepy so realised and shouted "no I don't want to" but they did it anyway.

The abortionist - that word is not used to "make" it sound like anything, someone who performs an abortion is an abortionist, it's just the word that is used.

I recieved a formal apology because it was investigated and my notes recorded that I expressly and repeatedly stated I wanted to keep my baby. The same person that sat and recorded those notes was the same person that aborted my baby, therefore it was the decision of the meeting that they had acted without informed consent and against a patient's wishes. The abortionist was crying at the meeting but I don't think she was crying for my baby, I think she was crying at the prospect of being disciplined.

The hospital advised they would review their procedures and the advise they give to pregnant women who want to keep their babies, although obviously I have no way of knowing whether they actually will or not.

If you had read my earlier posts, I have already said twice that I do accept my part and my failings, therefore it is inappropriate of you to say that I am "laying all the blame on others". Quite simply a lot of the blame does fall on this practitioner and this was accepted by the hospital and the practioner herself, and I accept my share of the blame too.

marywooyeah

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Out of interest, what was the doctor actually apologising for? Was the procedure botched in some way?

She apologised for performing an abortion against someone's express wishes and without informed consent.

Don't know if it would be classified as botched but I contracted PID which I was not warned about which went unnoticed for years leading me to miscarry my husband's baby - the Dr at this time confirmed the PID was the cause of the miscarriage and brought everything up all over again.

Welshwoofs wrote: »

The embryo becomes fully formed at 12 weeks - most abortions in the UK are done up to 12 weeks and are therefore not fully formed.

It's 8 weeks when the baby is full formed.

POPPYOSCAR

marywooyeah wrote: »

You were not there, you do not know what happened.

I DID say I didn't want an abortion repeatedly, I expressly said more than once that I wanted to keep my baby, that I had named my baby and needed help keeping the baby. I had the anathestic needle put into my hand with no one asking me let alone told me that they would do it - I tried to sit up and felt sleepy so realised and shouted "no I don't want to" but they did it anyway.

The abortionist - that word is not used to "make" it sound like anything, someone who performs an abortion is an abortionist, it's just the word that is used.

I recieved a formal apology because it was investigated and my notes recorded that I expressly and repeatedly stated I wanted to keep my baby. The same person that sat and recorded those notes was the same person that aborted my baby, therefore it was the decision of the meeting that they had acted without informed consent and against a patient's wishes. The abortionist was crying at the meeting but I don't think she was crying for my baby, I think she was crying at the prospect of being disciplined.

The hospital advised they would review their procedures and the advise they give to pregnant women who want to keep their babies, although obviously I have no way of knowing whether they actually will or not.

If you had read my earlier posts, I have already said twice that I do accept my part and my failings, therefore it is inappropriate of you to say that I am "laying all the blame on others". Quite simply a lot of the blame does fall on this practitioner and this was accepted by the hospital and the practioner herself, and I accept my share of the blame too.

That is unforgiveable.

I am so sorry you went through that, I hope you can come to terms with this eventually.

And by the sound of things you were in no way to blame, so go easy on yourself.

Person_one

Lotus-eater wrote: »

You shouldn't have children and you shouldn't be allowed to have children.

That is all.

Erm, I think its pretty clear they don't want children, so your point is moot.

Surely this is a good illustration that its better that people who feel so strongly should be allowed to abort rather than forced to bear children they really don't want?

Welshwoofs

She apologised for performing an abortion against someone's express wishes and without informed consent.

So are you saying that you were never given a consent form to sign or that you were, but you never signed it and they went ahead and did the procedure anyway?

marywooyeah wrote: »

It's 8 weeks when the baby is full formed.

The NHS would appear to disagree with you:

"Just 12 weeks after conception, the foetus is fully formed. All its organs, muscles, limbs and bones are in place, and the sex organs are well developed. From now on, it has to grow and mature."
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/pregnancy-weeks-9-10-11-12.aspx

Not that it matters mind you - 8 weeks, 12 weeks - it's still a fetus that is incapable of survival outside the womb.

Person_one

likelyfran wrote: »

Am I alone in thinking that a lot of people should really just use contraception in the first place?

How many times does it need to be repeated that every single form of contraception has a failure rate that even with perfect use results in a substantial number of pregnancies?

Or have some posters found a magical 100% effective non abstinence method that they aren't telling the rest of the world about...

Person_one

Welshwoofs wrote: »

So are you saying that you were never given a consent form to sign or that you were, but you never signed it and they went ahead and did the procedure anyway?

Yeah, I've read this story before and I didn't believe it the first time.

Its just too perfect as anti-abortion provider propaganda.

Welshwoofs

Person_one wrote: »

How many times does it need to be repeated that every single form of contraception has a failure rate that even with perfect use results in a substantial number of pregnancies?

Frankly you could write it on a 50ft long banner and get it flown by on the half hour and it would still be ignored. The reason why it's ignored is, in my opinion, because women who want children or who want a pregnancy simply can't accept that some other women don't and when that happens it seems to me that they try and 'explain' that stance by dismissing the women who don't want a child as irresponsible, unemotional and all sorts of other unhelpful adjectives.

You'll note in this thread that not once has a criticism been levied at anyone who wants children or wanted to keep a pregnancy....but rather a lot has been thrown in the other direction. And that is why threads on these subject always raise a wry smile in me because it seems to me that unfortunately feminism failed if we won the right to abort....but only if we show 'appropriate' regret, guilt, acknowledgement that we've ended a 'baby's life' (even though that's biologically and legally not the case). The right we have is a wonderful one and no woman should be made to feel bad either about making that choice OR for the way she feels about that choice having made it.

poet123

Person_one wrote: »

Erm, I think its pretty clear they don't want children, so your point is moot.

Surely this is a good illustration that its better that people who feel so strongly should be allowed to abort rather than forced to bear children they really don't want?

Is that not backwards thinking? Firstly, for me, it illustrates that they should have a foolproof method of contraception, belt and braces if necessary. And before anyone says there is no foolproof method I know that, but if you use more than one method together the chances of failure are negligible. In fact anyone who feels that strongly should seek a permanent method of contraception.

Person_one

poet123 wrote: »

Is that not backwards thinking? Firstly, for me, it illustrates that they should have a foolproof method of contraception, belt and braces if necessary. And before anyone says there is no foolproof method I know that, but if you use more than one method together the chances of failure are negligible. In fact anyone who feels that strongly should seek a permanent method of contraception.

A permanent method like sterilisation? Which still has a failure rate?

The most effective form of contraception is actually the implant, and hundreds of women have conceived using that, you may remember the headlines a while back.

Don't forget that not every woman can use every contraceptive. I had to rely on barrier methods for years until I found a hormonal method that didn't make me ill.

Even if someone like that poster is a wee bit careless or makes a mistake, what life are you wishing on the unwanted child for the sake of punishing the mother's carelessness?