delicate subject - abortion

Person_one

Welshwoofs wrote: »

You'll note in this thread that not once has a criticism been levied at anyone who wants children or wanted to keep a pregnancy....but rather a lot has been thrown in the other direction. And that is why threads on these subject always raise a wry smile in me because it seems to me that unfortunately feminism failed if we won the right to abort....but only if we show 'appropriate' regret, guilt, acknowledgement that we've ended a 'baby's life' (even though that's biologically and legally not the case). The right we have is a wonderful one and no woman should be made to feel bad either about making that choice OR for the way she feels about that choice having made it.

Feminism is a work in progress, we'll get there eventually!

Welshwoofs

poet123 wrote: »

In fact anyone who feels that strongly should seek a permanent method of contraception.

Ever tried to seek a sterialisation? I have. I don't know if this is a nationwide thing, but in the region I live they wouldn't do it if you had no children and no medical issues that would make carrying a child difficult.

The NHS don't like to sterialise childfree women of a fertile age...presumably in case they change their minds.

poet123

Welshwoofs wrote: »

So are you saying that you were never given a consent form to sign or that you were, but you never signed it and they went ahead and did the procedure anyway?




The NHS would appear to disagree with you:

"Just 12 weeks after conception, the foetus is fully formed. All its organs, muscles, limbs and bones are in place, and the sex organs are well developed. From now on, it has to grow and mature."
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/pregnancy-weeks-9-10-11-12.aspx

Not that it matters mind you - 8 weeks, 12 weeks - it's still a fetus that is incapable of survival outside the womb.

It is not a blob of cells though. I am pro choice, but I don't like to see people blythely making statements which are designed to belittle what the act of abortion actually is. That is a fully formed baby at 12 weeks you can see it on the scan pictures, alive and moving. It may not be viable outside the womb, but it is still a life.

Abortions are a fact of life and a necessity for many women, but that does not mean we should lose sight of what they entail or what they result in. Those who persist in playing that down do so for their own reasons.

poet123

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Ever tried to seek a sterialisation? I have. I don't know if this is a nationwide thing, but in the region I live they wouldn't do it if you had no children and no medical issues that would make carrying a child difficult.

The NHS don't like to sterialise childfree women of a fertile age...presumably in case they change their minds.

If someone felt that strongly they could go privately. In any event if you were to suggest that bearing a child would be injurious to their mental health I suspect the NHS would do it.

poet123

Person_one wrote: »

A permanent method like sterilisation? Which still has a failure rate?

The most effective form of contraception is actually the implant, and hundreds of women have conceived using that, you may remember the headlines a while back.

Don't forget that not every woman can use every contraceptive. I had to rely on barrier methods for years until I found a hormonal method that didn't make me ill.

Even if someone like that poster is a wee bit careless or makes a mistake, what life are you wishing on the unwanted child for the sake of punishing the mother's carelessness?

Obviously, ultimately an abortion would be the way forward in such a case. My point was that it should not be the first port of call.

There will always be contraceptive failures, but they do not wholly account for the numbers aborting.

poet123

Person_one wrote: »

Feminism is a work in progress, we'll get there eventually!

Feminism, rather like power, comes with a burden of responsibility.

Errata

marywooyeah wrote: »

She apologised for performing an abortion against someone's express wishes and without informed consent.

Sorry, don't believe a word of it. A doctor doesn't perform an invasive procedure without their medical and nursing colleagues knowing about it, which means they would all have to be in cahoots with a doctor performing a criminal act. Doesn't happen.

POPPYOSCAR

Errata wrote: »

Sorry, don't believe a word of it. A doctor doesn't perform an invasive procedure without their medical and nursing colleagues knowing about it, which means they would all have to be in cahoots with a doctor performing a criminal act. Doesn't happen.

Do we know how long ago this happened? Things have not always been as they are now.

peachyprice

marywooyeah wrote: »

I DID say I didn't want an abortion repeatedly, I expressly said more than once that I wanted to keep my baby, that I had named my baby and needed help keeping the baby. I had the anathestic needle put into my hand with no one asking me let alone told me that they would do it - I tried to sit up and felt sleepy so realised and shouted "no I don't want to" but they did it anyway.

But you did go to the clinic/hospital of your own free will, yes? And you did get undressed and let them prep you for surgery of your own free will, yes?

Why would you have done that if you were so insistant that you wanted the baby, a baby that you had named?

POPPYOSCAR

peachyprice wrote: »

But you did go to the clinic/hospital of your own free will, yes? And you did get undressed and let them prep you for surgery of your own free will, yes?

Why would you have done that if you were so insistant that you wanted the baby, a baby that you had named?

Again, do we have any idea of how long ago this was, how old she was, how much pressure was put on by others?

How about young girls who did go ahead and have their babies and have them taken away from them for adoption ? How easy would it have been for them at one time to refuse to hand the baby over for example?