Orange 'Free' Broadband

IdontlikeOrange

DonnyDave wrote: »

It is, but is this "mis-selling"? I am not so sure that it is.

I am not legally qualified and would be interested to hear from those who are on this. However, I would have thought that the mis-sold "test" would be: at the time the product was sold, could it have been known/demonstrated that it wasn't fit for purpose?

The decision to withdraw the offer has been taken subsequently and could therefore not have been known or fact at the time the product was sold.

However, I wonder whether those who signed mobile contracts after Orange decided to pull the offer could be deemed to have been mis-sold, if indeed those people have the offer pulled.


Legally, does mis-selling cover subsequent events that weren't known about or fact at the time of selling?

Some of the forumites reported that their renewal took place just weeks prior to the first wave of the Orange letters. Surely, the big bosses knew of the planned changes weeks if not months before implementation, yet the sales people carried on lying. So it is a case of mis-selling!

Eva49

I would imagine the Orange turnaround following endless discussion with their legal team is testament to mis-selling - they certainly had no appetite for legal action.

It needs to be remembered this hinges on Free BB for Life - which I WAS offered and accepted in 2006; but still checked, at every contract renewal, that it was ongoing and integral, as did many others on this forum!

It is clearly marked on all accounts and is a 'bundled service'

The following is from a legally qualified person:

[FONT=&quot]Orange retained their Mobile Contract Customers by offering ‘Free BB for Life’ as an inducement to renew their Mobile Contract for a minimum term, and most of us relied upon that representation that Orange would not remove this incentive, certainly, it was not foreseeable at the time of renewal this would be to our detriment some time into a new contract.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Customers are now under duress to accept the current offer which is a substantial variation in terms, and has to be acceptable…[/FONT]

RobbedRobbins

I was advised by my CAB case officer that not knowing was NO DEFENCE in selling me a mobile contract on basis if continuing my free BB unless I was told before signing it that "terms and conditions may change". I was not told this and therefore this is the basis of bringing a mis selling action. As it seems no sales man knew at the time of the changes that have occured none of them thought to state "terms and conditions may change" Its not their fault, but as CAB told me this is no defence! So I think there ARE an awful lot of mis sold contracts out there.In MHO this is what we should be focusing on to get any further with Ofcom etc.

DonnyDave wrote: »

It is, but is this "mis-selling"? I am not so sure that it is.

I am not legally qualified and would be interested to hear from those who are on this. However, I would have thought that the mis-sold "test" would be: at the time the product was sold, could it have been known/demonstrated that it wasn't fit for purpose?

The decision to withdraw the offer has been taken subsequently and could therefore not have been known or fact at the time the product was sold.

However, I wonder whether those who signed mobile contracts after Orange decided to pull the offer could be deemed to have been mis-sold, if indeed those people have the offer pulled.


Legally, does mis-selling cover subsequent events that weren't known about or fact at the time of selling?

RobbedRobbins

I think a petition on the parliament website is a good idea then we allput the link on facebook, twitter, wherever we can. If we start getting thousands of signatures I am sure I can get the Daily Mail to do a follow up article and a link to the petition.

IdontlikeOrange wrote: »

At home with flu and scribbled down the following:

Dear Madam/Sir,

We are customers of Orange mobile and Internet provider who took their “free for life Broadband” offer. It was available from 2006 and later, on the initial subscription to at least £30 monthly mobile package. All the subsequent renewals were made with explicit, in many cases only verbal, assurances that the free Broadband would stay the same. For many Orange customers the free Broadband (BB) was the main reason of renewal of otherwise expensive monthly tariffs. However, in August/September Orange decided to “withdraw” BB unless the customers’ landlines are switched to Orange and £14 monthly fees paid. Many of us received at least 3 letters with 3 different cut-off dates threatened.
Understandably it created outrage among us, since it appears that we all had been mis-sold our mobile contracts.
When trying to follow a complaint’s procedure described in Orange Complaints Code of Practice (http://www1.orange.co.uk/documents/about/Orange-complaints-code-20110118.pdf, we encountered tremendous difficulties. Their E-mail address was simply disabled. They never replied to the complaints via post. The Customer Service via phone was very unhelpful and ineffective, forwarding callers from one Department to another.
Undeterred, many of us registered our numerous complaints with Ofcom, an institution with is thought to regulate communication services and stop mal-practices. Their advice to customers was “to contact Orange directly to resolve their concerns if they believe they have been affected” and suggesting “Alternative Dispute Resolution (CISAS) if customers remain dissatisfied with the way in which Orange handled the complaint”. CISAS, when contacted, replied that “this case cannot be advanced to arbitration as it is deemed a business decision”.
We would like to call for Your immediate actions on two issues:
1. Effective protection of the UK consumers from illegal practices of companies such as Orange, since the so-called regulatory bodies refuse to do their duties;
2. Effective control of the above-mentioned regulatory bodies, which exist on the tax-payers’ money but do nothing to protect them.
Sincerely,


I was thinking about presenting it as an online petition through

http://www.change.org/en-GB/start-a-petition?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GST_USER_GBRT1_SCHT1_make_petition

If we could get a decent number of signatures, it can be sent to Parliament, although they have finicky rules when it comes to presenting public petitions (http://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/have-your-say/petitioning/public-petitions/).



The text is not final of course, so any edition/suggestion is welcome...
Also, if somebody does not want to be "seen" on the petition, they can use it as the template to send on their behalf only and just say through the forum that I had been sent (to get an idea of numbers).

I don't know, maybe it is not a brilliant idea but something must be done. The inglorious are extremely reluctant to admit that they were breaking the law and therefore leave very little documents/evidence behind. Lies and promises but always verbally. So our strength is in our numbers I think... If we all say the same... People from different geographical parts and backgrounds. The common denominator: Orange and their mal-practices...

Will_B_Back

Hi Donnydave,

Welcome to the Forum.

I too, am no legal expert, that is why I asked Ofcom to investigate the methods used. And IF they found the methods were illegal, then they have a duty to protect the public, using the Full Force Of the law to deter others from such practices

Several stalwarts on this forum having sought advice from CAB, have reported that according to CAB & Trading Standards, Misselling IS a criminal act.

I don't think the banks are voluntarily compensating people for PPI Misselling .

The_Future_is_Bright

I think it rather obvious that Orange knew Months ago they were going to pull the plug on Free BB. This "Business Decision" was not dreamt up overnight. It takes months for something like this to be approved by management. Sadly to there detriment as I'm sure once all of those on this forum come to the end of their contracts they will also come to the end of ORANGE/EE. I will move along with my family and friends. Orange will find itself in hot water through time and will wish it had not pulled this immoral STUNT. Most people on this forum want to see justice and will continue to see ORANGE getting its just deserts.

Well done to EVA(along with many others) for motivating everyone on this forum and their tireless efforts. :T:T:T:T:T:T KEEP FOLLOWING HER LETTER - GET REFFERENCE NOS FROM OFCOM.

REMIND ME AGAIN - HOW MUCH WERE THE BANKS FINED FOR MIS-SELLING??????? !!!!

DonnyDave

Eva49, RobbedRobbins: It is interesting what you and perhaps mis-selling laws are stronger than I may have given them credit for.

Will B Back: The question is primarily one of is this "mis-selling" in the legal sense. I have not said that mis-selling is not a criminal offence; I have asked is this mis-selling. Opinion as to whether it is by the dictionary definition of the word doesn't necessarily mean that it is in a legal sense.

The thing with PPI is that it was clearly known (or could have been known/demonstrated) at the time of sale that the policies weren't worth the paper they were printed on.

Eva49

DonnyDave

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/mobmisselling/


http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/enforcement/competition-bulletins/closed-cases/all-closed-cases/cw_01074/

Orange have been investigated in the past for mis-selling

RobbedRobbins

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/ofcom-publish-their-review-on-mis-selling-by-ee-re-withdrawal-of-bb-service

OK I have started this petition on www.change.org. to petition Ofcom because at the end of the day they are the ones that have to do something about this by ruling on EE's disgraceful tactics.I know they are currently passing the buck, but its important as consumers who pay their wages to not let them. They exist for us,the consumer, not Orange!

The_Future_is_Bright

Taken from BT website:

Ofcom is the independent regulator and competition authority for the UK's communications industries. Their website is a useful resource. Alternatively you could contact your local MP who may lobby for changes and improvements to prevent mis-selling. Contact details are available through the United Kingdom Parliament website, or by calling the House of Commons Information Office on 020 7219 4272.

BT website:

Do I have to be given any information before I enter into a contract?

Only if you have had no face-to-face contact with the company (eg if a contract is made over the phone or online). Then, the company must give you some key information before you enter into a contract. This includes a description of the services, the price, the existence of your right to cancel and any minimum term that applies. Most of this information has to be confirmed in writing.

Taken from Which? website:
Mobile mis-selling

If you bought a mobile phone or mobile contract, it must be of satisfactory quality, fit for its purpose and as described.
If either the phone or the contract is not as described when you made your agreement with the retailer, this is classed as mobile mis-selling. If you bought your phone or mobile contract directly from a service provider (such as Orange or Vodafone), contact it and complain that you've been mis-sold your mobile contract. If you can't resolve your problem with your provider, contact Otelo or Cisas.

THIS IS A CLEAR CASE OF MIS-SELLING WITH REGARD TO ORANGE - AND THEY KNOW IT!!!!!