Always just friends

PasturesNew

I don't think it's up to the OP to change their behaviour, asking out is what men should do - and if the OP's no good with body language etc then it'll all end up with a wrong and desperate lurching at some point, followed by awkward silence ... and then having to slide away from the groups from embarrassment at having got something SO wrong.

Some people can flirt etc.... some can't. Some in the middle could read/learn from a book .... and some people would crash and burn spectacularly if they even attempted to do what the book said.

tesuhoha

Saturnalia wrote: »

Ooh no, I hated The Rules! Funnily enough a bunch of us a few months ago at the charity shop I work in had a donated copy we were flicking through & we unanimously agreed, male and female, that if anyone treated us like we weren't interested, we'd assume they weren't and leave them alone.

Okay, fair enough. Maybe you should read 'He's just not that into you.' though as its written by a man. All these books are just there to give you some insight into whats going on with men that don't react to us. I think parts of all of them are useful. The Rules is not about showing you are not interested. I.e. if someone asks you out on a date you could say you were busy that day but could do another day. It just spices things up a bit.

Also I just thought of it last night when brushing my teeth, have you seen the film My Best Friend's Wedding? I think that film sums up your situation beautifully. It wasn't that Julia Roberts wasn't beautiful and interesting, but he just loved the other girl.

tesuhoha

PasturesNew wrote: »

I don't think it's up to the OP to change their behaviour, asking out is what men should do - and if the OP's no good with body language etc then it'll all end up with a wrong and desperate lurching at some point, followed by awkward silence ... and then having to slide away from the groups from embarrassment at having got something SO wrong.

Some people can flirt etc.... some can't. Some in the middle could read/learn from a book .... and some people would crash and burn spectacularly if they even attempted to do what the book said.

I agree that asking out is what men should do 100%. The books I am talking about back up that theory too and He's Not That Into You' is about looking the truth in the face.

Its pointless wasting time on someone who is not interested. Its better to go out and have a good time with friends. I also agree that her behaviour and character should not change. If someone likes you then they should like you as you are. I just think she should stay dignified and whilst a smile is okay, no further action is needed to chase a man.

Travelqueen

Hey Saturnalia
Read your post, and despite us obviously looking completely different I could have been reading about me.
I was single for 12 years, I obviously had dalliances, but never a long term relationship from the age of 21-34.
I'm the opposite of you in that I'm pretty outgoing and extrovert, but that puts people off as much as being shy. I was always told I was too opinionated, but didn't see why I should have to change for someone else. I'm also wearing more padding than I'd like but recently lost a stone (only 3 more to go!)
However, after years of internet dating, dating through friends, trying to meet people wherever you can and frequently being told 'I don't understand why you're single' I eventually met my boyfriend nearly 2 years ago. I still feel like I am learning how to have a relationship having missed out on those experiences during my 20's.
The thing that worked for me? (And I know it is different for everyone) is after years of internet dating, 9 to be exact, I finally stumbled on the right website. That I think is the key. For me it was Guardian Soulmates as they seemed to be fairly well educated, which however snobby it sounds was important for me. Maybe if you like geeky boys that might be a start point?
Anyway, it sounds like you are doing all the right things, and as long as you are happy with the changes you are making there is no problem with making them. I know it sounds twee, and you've heard it a million times, but when you are ready you will meet someone. I can safely say this over a computer screen as you can't reach in and stab me which is what I wanted to do when people told me the same thing. Sadly I now know they were right.
After I had left my horrific job which nearly gave me a nervous breakdown and recovered for a few months, that's when I met my boyfriend. If I'd have met him before it wouldn't have worked, mainly because I had no real time and was a total wreck. I was also chasing after a bloke that I was trying to pretend was my boyfriend after seeing him for a year, although it was quite obvious he was really only a f**k buddy. Why do we try and convince ourselves things are black when they are really white just because we want them to be!?
Sorry, am rambling now. All the best of luck, and it WILL happen honestly.
TQ

PS. I also hated the rules and kept shouting at the book. load of american b*llocks. He's just not that into you I found painful as so many of the scenarios could have been me. *sigh*.

Saturnalia

Some interesting points there, and I did enjoy "He's Not That Into You", I read it and realised I'd literally made every mistake in the book, probably have made a few again with this latest guy in fact, I'll have to give it a re-read.

One thing, again this was in our shop discussion of The Rules, was that in just about every straight couple we could name, the man did the asking out, but the woman made the effort to show him she was interested in him first, and the men felt comfortable doing the asking because they were fairly sure they wouldn't get a crushing rejection!

(My sister met her now-husband at college, they'd been making eyes at each other for the Winter term but nothing had happened, then the day they broke up for Christmas she gave him her number and told him to give her a ring if he fancied a drink over the hols (that way she had 2 weeks without having to see him if he didn't ring!). The call came that night, the first date was the next night and this December is their 12th anniversary. (And my next birthday I'm double the age they were when they got together. :eek:_pale_) )

I don't think a woman shouldn't ask a man out, but I'm certainly nowhere near that stage yet, and besides there is the old saying that the problem with feminism is that women have changed but men haven't and I think they still do like a little bit of a challenge!

Saturnalia

Wow Travelqueen, your story is so inspiring!!!:D

A friend of mine had never had any kind of boyfriend, not even really casual back in school, then last year (she was 30) met someone she liked who liked her, and they've been together a year now and are as happy as pigs. I saw her a few weeks ago and she's the happiest, most relaxed and most calm and settled within that I've ever seen her (and I've known her since 5!) She said that she was scared at first of the unknown but things just unfolded between them slowly and naturally and she doesn't know now what she was ever worried about!

It does scare me that I have next to no experience and worry that men will think I'm a freak, but then again if I met a man who'd never had a girlfriend I'd think he was very choosy about who he spent his time with and feel flattered he chose me - so why do I judge myself so much more harshly than I do others? How did your bloke react to the news?

I do laugh at that "you'll meet someone when you're ready" because all sorts of people meet under all sorts of circumstances, usually imperfect because life itself is imperfect, but somehow make relationships happen. I don't know one couple who met with all of their ducks lined up in a row!

I've heard good things about Guardian Soulmates so will have to give it a try.

System

One thing, again this was in our shop discussion of The Rules, was that in just about every straight couple we could name, the man did the asking out, but the woman made the effort to show him she was interested in him first, and the men felt comfortable doing the asking because they were fairly sure they wouldn't get a crushing rejection!

I look at it as its the womans job to make the man feel comfortable around her enough and give enough signals to make the man feel confident enough to ask her out without the fear of being rejected.

londonsurrey

Saturnalia wrote: »

It does scare me that I have next to no experience and worry that men will think I'm a freak, but then again if I met a man who'd never had a girlfriend I'd think he was very choosy about who he spent his time with and feel flattered he chose me - so why do I judge myself so much more harshly than I do others? How did your bloke react to the news?

I am a "freak" of kinds. I have Aspergers Syndrome, which means that I see the world very differently from most of the population, and have weird quirks like hypersensitivity - consider the repercussions of this for someone trying to touch you, and then consider any poor man trying to get cosy with me.

But current paramour manages, he's found some different ways of doing things, and although continuously surprised, he's happy to carry on.

tesuhoha

Yes, I would recommend that you watch My Best Friend's Wedding if you haven't seen it. Although a comedy I think it is a very good film and when I watched it, it made me realise some home truths in a very good way.

Its not uncommon to go through years of loneliness. I did, and my daughter is going through it now. Her difficulty is actually meeting men as we live in a small town and she won't do online dating. She keeps going back to the same unsuitable man because there is no alternative and she says being with him is better than being lonely. However, until she is alone she won't meet anyone else. This is what I keep telling her but she doesn't believe she is ever going to meet anyone. It is hard to have that faith but it usually happens when you least expect it to.

Saturnalia

I'm on it. I've been dressed quite conservatively this week and tomorrow morning when I'm paid I'm buying those nicotine patches! Eek scary, but I'm feeling ready to kick the nasty habit at last. I'm also getting the nails made shorter at the weekend and have chosen a nice shiny olive green for them. My toes are sparkly orange though, some things are staying a little crazy!

I'm still feeling a bit wobbly and teary at times though and it's so pathetic of me. Why am I getting upset over yet-another-man who doesn't want me, couldn't even be gentle about letting me know, and basically doesn't deserve my tears? How stupid of me.