Delivery Company say I signed I was not home

richto

zenseeker wrote: »

Utter dross, neither will work. Try a charge back, there will be an investigation and they will see that you DID receive a package...charge back rejected.

A credit card chargeback has worked for me with no issues when tracking showed delivery but i had received nothing once via Paypal and once with a well known High street retailer. The Paypal one I raised on the basis that the signature was clearly not mine, and i was immediately refunded by my CC company. I was also asked to fill in and sign a short form confirming the details of my claim for this one (usually just a phone call is enough).

Sounds like you dont have a clue how eBay / Paypal work...

I have never personally had to claim a missing item was SNAD, but I have had it done to me when an INR claim failed for the buyer so it most certainly does work. Paypal will allow an INR claim to be changed to a SNAD, and a SNAD covers empty boxes.

If you claim SNAD you will win unless the seller can PROVE otherwise (very difficult in general). Paypal almost always decide in favour of the buyer. So it is effectively an enforced 45 days return period regardless of the validity of the claim in most cases.

You would have to post the seller something back tracked, but that's not hard. Buyer in my case just sent a tracked envelope empty other than a Postit note saying 'i am returning what i received!'

To be fair they didnt leave me a neg as they realised it was a courier failure.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

richto wrote: »

A credit card chargeback has worked for me with no issues when tracking showed delivery but i had received nothing once via Paypal and once with a well known High street retailer. The Paypal one I raised on the basis that the signature was clearly not mine, and i was immediately refunded by my CC company. I was also asked to fill in and sign a short form confirming the details of my claim for this one (usually just a phone call is enough).

Sounds like you dont have a clue how eBay / Paypal work...

As mentioned before seller protection kicks in leaving Paypal with the loss which might affect the future of your Paypal account, fully depends how much you need Paypal really but, according to Paypal, the closure of your account can affect your credit rating.

richto wrote: »

You would have to post the seller something back tracked, but that's not hard.

Where a buyer hasn't received anything at all posting anything back to win a SNAD case would again affect the future of their account if the seller successfully appealed or in general wouldn't do the buyer any favours if the seller took the matter to court.

As far as I'm aware there is a SNAD option for receiving something but it being empty so Paypal must have a procedure for this.

richto

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

As mentioned before seller protection kicks in leaving Paypal with the loss which might affect the future of your Paypal account, fully depends how much you need Paypal really but, according to Paypal, the closure of your account can affect your credit rating.

I dont have a credit agreement with Paypal, so what ever they do can't effect my credit rating. Where does it say that?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Where a buyer hasn't received anything at all posting anything back to win a SNAD case would again affect the future of their account if the seller successfully appealed or in general wouldn't do the buyer any favours if the seller took the matter to court.

As far as I'm aware there is a SNAD option for receiving something but it being empty so Paypal must have a procedure for this.

As a buyer it wouldnt effect your account at all, unless it was proved you did something wrong which is very unlikely.

The seller can 'appeal' and it's their word versus the buyers - I have never won one of these. As stated Paypal take buyers side by default, so it might as well not exist.

No one is going to take it to court, as the buyer would just say I didnt get an item and therefore owe no money. The seller wouldnt be able to prove that they did beyond the balance of probability. And the seller would have to treck to the buyers local court too.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

richto wrote: »

I dont have a credit agreement with Paypal, so what ever they do can't effect my credit rating. Where does it say that?

Something to do with Paypal being a bank, more than one member of staff has mentioned this.

richto wrote: »

As a buyer it wouldnt effect your account at all, unless it was proved you did something wrong which is very unlikely.

The seller can 'appeal' and it's their word versus the buyers - I have never won one of these. As stated Paypal take buyers side by default, so it might as well not exist.

No one is going to take it to court, as the buyer would just say I didnt get an item and therefore owe no money. The seller wouldnt be able to prove that they did beyond the balance of probability. And the seller would have to treck to the buyers local court too.

A buyer whose sent messages via eBay stating they haven't received anything who then returns any thing to win a SNAD could be proved to Paypal and such actions wouldn't paint the buyer in a very good light in court either.

The majority seem to suggest OP will find it difficult to win in court, so if the other way round, with the seller having POD (and most people not going to so much effort as the OP) the buyer might not win.

I'm not suggesting a customer shouldn't be refunded in this case, I'm just saying a false SNAD claim isn't the best advice to be posting on a public forum....

socrates

I have no reason to lie as I am in the right all the way

The DC are now trying a different angle - in my opinion to save face

They are now saying there is a possibility that the driver left the parcel with a neighbour

I have asked the neighbours already if they took in a delivery and they have not

The DC are saying they have delivered to my address before and have signatures from my address on file and want a sample of my signature to compare

The investigator has admitted in writing something is amiss so lets see what happens next week

cestlavie

interesting thread. perhaps couriers cld wear headcams to solve this issue?! GPS proves nothing except you were there, not that you got out the van and delivered anything. thankfully never had problems like this. good luck op.
btw. my signature for delivery items is nothing like my normal signature - it is deliberately different as a fraud protection measure,

socrates

Below is a slightly edited copy of the email I just received

I have replied that whilst I appreciate her efforts - I feel that I am due further compensation for all the emails and calls and time wasted

Not to the mention the anguish of having my signature 'forged'

Part one complete

Part two to come

Thanks for all those who advised me - I had to follow my own instincts on how to get there so sorry if I did not exactly follow your advice to the letter

And for the negative people - 'here's looking at you kid!'



Good Morning Mr xxxxx


I have addressed this further with our Depot Manager and there do appear to be some discrepancies on what actually transpired during the delivery of your parcel. Therefore to bring this matter to a resolution, I will now contact our client (your sender) who did initially raise an investigation on this and I am going to allow them to process a claim on this item as per our Terms and Conditions of Carriage.


I would therefore then respectfully refer you back to your sender, in order for them to proceed further in how you would then be refunded for the loss. We are unable to do this directly with you, as our liability lies solely with the sender and not the consignee.


Please accept my sincerest apologies for the upset caused.

--
Kind Regards
xxxxxxx

Executive Enquiry Desk

socrates

zenseeker wrote: »

There is no way you can win this unfortunately. As has been stated many many times, the seller has proof that it was delivered, so does the courier. You can ask the courier to describe you, but quite frankly I doubt you have a face so memorable that he would be able to describe you with any accuracy, the whole process would be over within seconds and he probably didn't pay all that much attention to you. I talked to a customer for a good 15 mins today, but I could only give you the vaguest of descriptions now...

As for the graphologist, why bother? The signature obviously isn't yours, you wouldn't need an expert to prove that fact. The only use a graphologist would be is if the signature was close enough to yours, but still an obvious forgery. The issue here is that someone at your address, or nearby, signed for the item, so as far as anyone is concerned it has been delivered and it is impossible to prove otherwise. There is no requirement for a delivery to be signed for solely by the addressee, so again the signature becomes irrelevant.

Well I did win!!!

knightstyle

Well done, have followed this thread for a while. Now go after them for attempted fraud???? Oh and payment for your time etc.

socrates

knightstyle wrote: »

Well done, have followed this thread for a while. Now go after them for attempted fraud???? Oh and payment for your time etc.

I already am read post #138