Self Respect vs Responsibility

POPPYOSCAR

Person_one wrote: »

What's 'decently'?

She is 15 I do not think it is appropriate for her to dress with her breasts hanging out and a skirt so short it looks like a belt.

BugglyB

Dizziblonde, your mum sounds amazing!

I do think most people (men and women) who are raped are raped (or seriously sexually assaulted) within relationships. It makes sense for sexual predators. Dragging someone off the street - man woman or child - and raping them is a very high profile/high risk thing to do. Forming a relationship and bond of trust with a person then abusing that power is harder to break free from and often impossible to prosecute.

For what its worth I think wolf whistling, chat up lines, leers and stared by creepy men is worse when you wear revealing clothing. I dont see how you can stop young women from enjoying that sort of attention, I liked it when I was 17! Cert

BugglyB

Certainly I dont know if telling them they'll end up being raped is a good idea. It might just make them less likely to tell you if anything did happen.

lostinrates

aliasojo wrote: »

I mentioned my experience with the bus driver in an earlier post?

Do you need details?

I'm not dismissing anything person_one, I'm simply saying there are various causes just as there are individuality in people.

Aliasojo, my personal experience has been similar. Not JUST clothes, but partly how i behaved etc. I was not responsible for anything done/said to me, but neither was i helping myself.

It is quite a different thing to say someone is 'asking for it' and not true.

POPPYOSCAR

FBaby wrote: »

I am teaching my daugther that less is often more, that what is attractive is what is being kept secretive, that concentrating on looking healthy is also more attractive.

I come from France originally and I still haven't adjusted to that British culture of young girls showing as much body parts as possible, in often a very unglorifid way. Having class in the way one held themselves, talks, smile, dress is what she should aim for rather than expressing sexual attraction.

Thankfully, my 12DD, who is very lucky to have a dream figure in the making isn't interested at all in showing her body, as a matter of fact, is quite shy about it. I would be horrified if she went out in a skimpy skirt, her stomach or chest exposed.

It has nothing to do with protecting yourself from what boys could think. It is irrelevant, nothing can justify rape in any way. It's about knowing what attracts people who can also appreciate beauty through their brain rather than just their hormones.

Well said.

lostinrates

Person_one wrote: »

Ah, but if covering up and dressing modestly was truly a way to stay safe (and the Saudi claim is that women are more respectable and more 'precious' when they aren't viewed by the eyes of the public) then surely it should follow that rape in Saudi should be rare?

I have no idea so this is a risky comparison, but io imagine not all car crashes are caused by a drunk drivers not wearing seat belts, but that beiong inebbriated can make you more liekly to think clearly and avoid a crash and pit ypur seatbelt on helps you survive it.

Noone 'asks' for sexual assault, and as moch of it is about power it makes perfect sense that rape might be high in a society where some men feel the need to assert power over women.

Its also likely that some boundaries get pushed by men who Would not consider them selves rapists. I certainly feel in some cases i have been made to feel uncomfortable that would have been the case. It was not MY fault, i am not saying that.

Tbh i also find the furore over comparing sexual assault with theft a bit strange, i see it as a comparable risk too. Anything is. You cannot protect against anythiong, you can minimise risk. Being not druink to the point of irresponsibility is one way. Being dressed able to run is another. Presenting yourself (and i do not just mean clothing) in a way might not protect you from 'rapists' might it might protect you against idiots who could rape iyswim. A subtle difference in kotivation rather than act, that i am finding it difficult to describe.

poet123

It is common sense I think.

lostinrates

poet123 wrote: »

It is common sense I think.

Ithink fbaby raises a valid point about culture. My dh always said if we ha had a daughter he would not want her secondary education in uk. He found girls' behaviour at uni a bit of a shock. (behaviour, not clothes) and felt that wonen generally had less respect for themselves emotionally, sexually, or for their partners that his girlfriends elsewhere had done. Its not a promiscuity issue, a clothing issue, though those might sonetimes be symptomatic.

notakid

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

I assume you are talking about my thread and one of my posts and if so you have twisted what was said.

My daughter did not sneer at her friend, it was a comment made to her by someone else. My daughter has a beautiful figure size 10 and is very tall and yes I want her to dress decently and not wear a skirt that looks like a belt!!

No it wasn't your comment, it has been said from the beginning of the thread with one person saying the sl@ppers being picked up in the cars!

You wouldn't have those thoughts or comments if it was boys. I thought there were some harsh comments regarding what it boils down too a group of children dressing up. I just think that as women we have a lot of self hate sometimes and we judge ourselves much more harshly than men and because of this how are we ever going to stop being seen as objects rather than just people.

Person_one

lostinrates wrote: »

Ithink fbaby raises a valid point about culture. My dh always said if we ha had a daughter he would not want her secondary education in uk. He found girls' behaviour at uni a bit of a shock. (behaviour, not clothes) and felt that wonen generally had less respect for themselves emotionally, sexually, or for their partners that his girlfriends elsewhere had done. Its not a promiscuity issue, a clothing issue, though those might sonetimes be symptomatic.

What behaviour worried him?

I don't think enjoying sex, having a few drinks, enjoying independence etc. as a student is indicative of a lack of self respect. You never hear it claimed that boys and men who indulge in those behaviours have low self esteem!