Self Respect vs Responsibility

Elle7

This is following on from the thread on children's life lessons a few days ago.

I was really interested in the argument that broke out regarding teaching young girls about their bodies and how school works in terms of gaining reputations and experimentation.

On the one hand, I do think that these are important lessons, and that girls should be discouraged from experimenting at a young age with every boy in the class, or sleeping with people in order to become popular. I even had a discussion with my younger sisters about how rolling up skirts or having low cut shirts gets them attention for the wrong reasons, from the wrong people.

On the other, I can understand the argument that the above almost makes them seem responsible for other peoples behaviour. Its understandable that by teaching the above at a young age, it may suggest to the girl that if they are raped or assaulted, it was their fault for the way they dressed or behaved.

I'd be really interested in other peoples views on this, and how they've educated their own daughters (or would educate them).

If this makes no sense, it's probably because of the large amount of morphine I'm taking for broken ribs. Apologies if that is the case Also, if I don't respond for a while, it's probably knocked me out.

notakid

Great thread! I wish you posted in DT!

Its hard isn't it? I think its becoming more apparrent nowadays that children with underlying issues often behave in a way that has a neg impact on their well being and tbh, my own personal opinion is who I'm I to judge behaviour that has no impact on me.

One of my friends started sexually at the age of 13! It didn't make her any different to me who started at 21.

Some people mature at different ages. I will say tho, I do know, from my daughter that her peers who have been sexually active do want others to join in too, partly to validate their behaviour perhaps?

I am very much of the thinking anyway that anyone should have the right to dress/behave as they wish. It is not an invite for rape. We are all thinking creatures. We can control our actions.

Seanymph

Surely it's about teaching your kids 'reality' as opposed to 'what's fair'.

No, it's not fair that you can't go out looking like a tuppeny nora - however, go clubbing in that young lady and you are likely to be getting attention from the drunken planks that will be hard to handle, I suggest you put a cardy on and something that covers your knicker lace.

*can you tell we have these conversations?*

Of course girls aren't responsible for someone else's behaviour - we are all responsible for our own - however, having that debate with a drunken (or not) dork at 2am isn't that productive, and in REALITY if you wear clothing to, let's face it, display your sexual availability (low cut tops etc) then you will get that sort of attention.

I taught my girls they had every right to dress however they wanted (or not dress at all) - but they were likely to be hassled if they did - so I would rather they kept a little decorum and class, and conducted themselves in a manner suiting young ladies.

*Of course I still keep having the above conversation fairly regularly*

daska

I'm with seanymph on this one, how you dress affects likely outcomes and fending off the drunken sots who take a bit of cleavage as a personal invite is less than pleasant. It's their choice to behave like that and they should take responsibility for being obnoxious but realistically that deep philosophical debate isn't an option at 2am.

Personally my advice to DSD is to make sure she dresses appropriately for the occasion (I don't advocate victorian bathing costumes), stays in a group with 2 or 3 others when possible and keeps a large glass of something cold and sticky to upend over a drunken pervs head when necessary to cool him off.

Advice to DS1 is pretty much the same, he may be 6"3" but he's 'nice' and couldn't hurt a fly even if he wanted to. He would need to take DSD to protect him LOL

aliasojo

Seanymph wrote: »

Surely it's about teaching your kids 'reality' as opposed to 'what's fair'.

Nutshell. :T

It's all very well for some to spout off about how awful it is that girls are subjected to this way of thinking blah, blah,blah, but unless you can change the whole world and make everyone in it, fair and well balanced, then you have to work with what is, not what should be.

heartbreak_star

Tupenny nora! I've never heard that one before!!

HBS x

aliasojo

notakid wrote: »

We are all thinking creatures.

I think you're giving too much credit to certain sections of society. :D

KateBob

I agree it can be a mine field, one I'm not looking forward to dealing with.

But it is important for young people to learn the risks/benefits associated with certain behaviours so they can make choices based on knowledge, it's a big part of growing up.

Person_one

aliasojo wrote: »

Nutshell. :T

It's all very well for some to spout off about how awful it is that girls are subjected to this way of thinking blah, blah,blah, but unless you can change the whole world and make everyone in it, fair and well balanced, then you have to work with what is, not what should be.

A great place to start would be teaching boys that they need to respect the girls no matter what they wear and that they don't have any rights over other people's bodies, in any circumstances.

Too much of this type of debate focuses completely on the behaviour of girls and women, as if men and boys are just unstoppable forces of nature that we all need to guard against, like not buying a house on a flood plain!

This is one of my favourite things at the moment:

Person_one

Seanymph wrote: »

so I would rather they kept a little decorum and class, and conducted themselves in a manner suiting young ladies.

Part of the problem is that for some reason we still have an attitude that 'nice girls' don't really enjoy sex, or feel desire. There's still a weird idea that sex is something boys want and girls have a duty to withhold.

Pee

I don't think a parent can be responsible for all self esteem issues, it is a very complicated area, but giving girls a sense of entitlement without making them complete princesses, is the answer. So much easier said than done.