Self Respect vs Responsibility

poet123

lostinrates wrote: »

Anyone can do it once or twice, and infact, i would argue that the way we present ourselves and behave can lead us to be treated as doormats by those around us, including our partners. Leaving bad boys for a nice man was the best thing i ever, ever did.

I think that is a good point, we do need to think how our actions make others view us and not allow them to see us as doormats. Bad boys have their attraction and can seem the most exciting prospect for a young girl, and the stead eddies can only stand on the sidelines and wish they were the ones having the fun. That does send a message to men and boys and often it is only later in life that we realise it, by then it is often too late. Nor does it have to be as serious as DV to make a women realise that, it can just be that bad boys are self centred and still want to have the single life when married and expect to be allowed to do so.

lostinrates wrote: »

And that is part of the problem...i agree very strongly with those saying education of men and boys is a HUGE part of the battle against any form of abusive interaction, but its one of the things that makes it so hard for men. I think its clear that a lot of men feel unattractiveto women, perhaps more young women but i don't know about that yet, if they are 'cheeky' or 'bad boys'. Its funny that a lot of my girl friends who could not understand the appeal of dh when we were in our early twenties are now whinging that they cannot find a man like him. I think there are plenty of great men about, and more who would make good partners if the woman clearly drew a line in the sand.

That is often the problem though, a lot of women want the whole package bad boy and family man, and they rarely meld together well. I think you do have to decide which is more important to you excitement or stability.

lostinrates wrote: »

I have unwittingly but not grudingly become a support for a freind who is in the very early stages of separation, and the thngs she used to find attractive i now see being used against her. I also see what i had admirted as her being enviably laid back and relaxed and patient over has actually created a situation where her rights are diminished. As far as i know her partner has not been either sexually or physically aggresive but the manipulation and self righteous ness is another symptom, imo, of 'power'.

I do think that both men and women use the positive traits of others to their advantage, it is only when that slips into manipulation that it becomes and issue and it is a fine line.

lostinrates wrote: »

While i wholeheartedly accept the power as a motivator i do not believe it always stands alone. I think very few emotions or traights do.

I agree, the whole man/woman dynamic is complex and if you are on the outside of any relationship you can never know for sure how any situation arose or why.

Kiboko

poet123 wrote: »

And I you, and PoppyOscar and PO, however ( and I know it is not particularly pleasant for others on the thread to have to read) I really could not let that implication stand or pass without comment. I am sure you understand why? It is done now as far as I am concerned.

Debate usually flows better if all sides adhere to a level of fair play I find.

Many of us are responding using our personal experiences and feelings regarding raising our children to be valid, participating members of the human race, others are not parents and therefore are using theories, that's fine. As a realist i recognise that what is fine in theory is in practise not going to work, the world is NOT perfect, the balance of raising children and keeping them safe cannot be an experiment of current theory. It could be argued that we should all raise our children the same way, in a perfect world. It is not a perfect world and therefore the theories of the the child-free are irrelevent to me.

Person_one

Ah the old 'I was clever enough to facilitate the meeting of egg and sperm therefore I automatically know more than you' refrain rears its ugly head.

With that I"m out, can't be bothered hitting my head against a brick wall anymore.

Kiboko

Person_one wrote: »

Ah the old 'I was clever enough to facilitate the meeting of egg and sperm therefore I automatically know more than you' refrain rears its ugly head.

With that I"m out, can't be bothered hitting my head against a brick wall anymore.

Absolutely not. More that emotions come into play when they are your children rather than just children. Therefore you see things from a different angle

JoeyG

By the same token, as a parent you are sometimes too close to a situation to exercise rational judgement.

None of this applies to the vast majority of parents, and non-parents, who are able to use common sense.

POPPYOSCAR

Person_one wrote: »

Its because they are victims. Domestic abusers are master manipulators and controllers.

Yes I understand that.

But if other people can see that for want of a better word the man is a 'bad boy' then why can they not see it.And why always go for that type of man?

I always think of the friend I mentioned earlier, very attractive her choice of men, but always going for the ones that are trouble. She is simply attracted to the wrong type of men. When she has a nice man she gets bored with him.

POPPYOSCAR

Kiboko wrote: »

Many of us are responding using our personal experiences and feelings regarding raising our children to be valid, participating members of the human race, others are not parents and therefore are using theories, that's fine. As a realist i recognise that what is fine in theory is in practise not going to work, the world is NOT perfect, the balance of raising children and keeping them safe cannot be an experiment of current theory. It could be argued that we should all raise our children the same way, in a perfect world. It is not a perfect world and therefore the theories of the the child-free are irrelevent to me.

I have to agree with this.

Having children has completely changed my view on children and in fact my life itself.

POPPYOSCAR

Person_one wrote: »

Ah the old 'I was clever enough to facilitate the meeting of egg and sperm therefore I automatically know more than you' refrain rears its ugly head.

With that I"m out, can't be bothered hitting my head against a brick wall anymore.

I do not think there is anything clever about having children, but having them does change a lot of people, and experience must count for something.

You probably have experienced things that I have not that would give you a better insight into some things than me.

Kiboko

Person_one wrote: »

Ah the old 'I was clever enough to facilitate the meeting of egg and sperm therefore I automatically know more than you' refrain rears its ugly head.

With that I"m out, can't be bothered hitting my head against a brick wall anymore.

Ah, ok so what you are saying is that my experiences and feelings as a parent are irrelevent, only theory is right? That is rubbish and you know it,I don't discount your input but you must discount mine because yours is theory and mine is experience?

Kiboko

Person_one wrote: »

Ah the old 'I was clever enough to facilitate the meeting of egg and sperm therefore I automatically know more than you' refrain rears its ugly head.

With that I"m out, can't be bothered hitting my head against a brick wall anymore.

you are as ever making sure those with experience appear in the wrong, that says far more about you than about the average parent.