Self Respect vs Responsibility

preciousillusions

(replying to poet's post) Wow. For one, 'bad boy' doesn't automatically mean=wife beater! & such abusers can be manipulative and trapping. I don't think the victim needs to take ANY of the responsibility. Whatever expectations she has going into a relationship, even if she is willingly putting herself at risk (even as a way of self harm), it is the perpetrator that makes the decision to take advantage of that! They are the controller of their actions and 100% at blame.

poet123

preciousillusions wrote: »

(replying to poet's post) Wow. For one, 'bad boy' doesn't automatically mean=wife beater! & such abusers can be manipulative and trapping. I don't think the victim needs to take ANY of the responsibility. Whatever expectations she has going into a relationship, even if she is willingly putting herself at risk (even as a way of self harm), it is the perpetrator that makes the decision to take advantage of that! They are the controller of their actions and 100% at blame.

She needs to take responsibility for her own actions not his.

He is 100% responsible for his choices, and she is for hers.

Bad boy doesn't mean wife beater, but it does allude to someone edgy and not entirely predictable and sometimes worse. If you actively seek out that type of man, you are again putting yourself in harm's way.

But we digress, and not accidentally, PO does this when she can't formulate a cogent and polite response. It was a cheap shot and I am sure everyone can see that.;)

poet123

BugglyB wrote: »

Come on you guys. No need to pull each other to shreds.

Regarding clothes: surely each generation thinks that about the next? My great grandad thought every man should wear a hat and women shouldn't wear trousers!

I think that is right, things change, fashions change, expectations change, but we should still I think try to look smart on special occasions. Jeans pass for formal attire now in many places.

GobbledyGook

BugglyB wrote: »

Regarding clothes: surely each generation thinks that about the next? My great grandad thought every man should wear a hat and women shouldn't wear trousers!

I get that fashions change, and I know it makes me sound like a right fuddy-duddy when I'm only 30.

I just find it staggering to see people turn up to job interviews in jeans and trainers. The thing that gets me the most though is people's attire at formal social occasions like weddings and funerals. One girl at a recent wedding was carrying on this current fashion of a lace top with just a coloured bra on show underneath it. Fair enough for a night out if that's your style, but in a church for a wedding with no jacket on top? Surely that's a case for a mother to say "That's not appropriate to the occasion". Then again her mother had on a dress on that could only be described as partially covering her boobs, so maybe it's just people in general rather than young people.

Same with funerals. Unless the family state otherwise funeral attire should be smart and sombre imo. Blue jeans, trainers (white ones, not black ones), and a black t-shirt just isn't really funeral attire when attending the funeral of a colleague imo.

It's just not respectful to me. I think respect is so important and it seems to be getting somewhat lost.

Kiboko

*Louise* wrote: »

I haven't read all 14 pages, so apologies if this has already been said in between your discussion, a few topic changes and possibly an argument or two between posters

...but why do we (society) always seem to focus on just teaching this to girls?

I have two boys and a girl and intend to teach the boys about self respect (and how to have respect for girls) just as much as i will teach my daughter. I don't want them sleeping around with just anyone, it's not just down to girls having self respect.

I hate how boys can sleep around with no ridicule yet girls end up with a reputation - I think both sexes should slow down and be a little more choosy with their number of sexual partners.

I agree with you.
Unfortunately the parents of daughters cannot rely on the parents of sons to educate them, sadly we don't live in a perfect world.

poet123

GobbledyGook wrote: »

I get that fashions change, and I know it makes me sound like a right fuddy-duddy when I'm only 30.

I just find it staggering to see people turn up to job interviews in jeans and trainers. The thing that gets me the most though is people's attire at formal social occasions like weddings and funerals. One girl at a recent wedding was carrying on this current fashion of a lace top with just a coloured bra on show underneath it. Fair enough for a night out if that's your style, but in a church for a wedding with no jacket on top? Surely that's a case for a mother to say "That's not appropriate to the occasion". Then again her mother had on a dress on that could only be described as partially covering her boobs, so maybe it's just people in general rather than young people.

Same with funerals. Unless the family state otherwise funeral attire should be smart and sombre imo. Blue jeans, trainers (white ones, not black ones), and a black t-shirt just isn't really funeral attire when attending the funeral of a colleague imo.

It's just not respectful to me. I think respect is so important and it seems to be getting somewhat lost.

I really agree with you on this one. Dress code seems to have gone out of the window. We once went to an awards ceremony at school and a friends daughter went onto the stage to collect her award and she had low slung jeans on, all the entire audience could see as she received the award with her back to us was her thong. I couldn't believe her mother had allowed her out like that.

It is about respect, respect the occasion, respect for the people around you and respect for yourself.

POPPYOSCAR

*Louise* wrote: »

I haven't read all 14 pages, so apologies if this has already been said in between your discussion, a few topic changes and possibly an argument or two between posters

...but why do we (society) always seem to focus on just teaching this to girls?

I have two boys and a girl and intend to teach the boys about self respect (and how to have respect for girls) just as much as i will teach my daughter. I don't want them sleeping around with just anyone, it's not just down to girls having self respect.

I hate how boys can sleep around with no ridicule yet girls end up with a reputation - I think both sexes should slow down and be a little more choosy with their number of sexual partners.

Yes so do I.

It surprises me that this attitude is still around with the young generation but it is. I have heard boys talk about girls that are easy etc. and yet laugh and boast about their own exploits. So nothing has changed over the years despite the emancipation of women.

I have tried to instill respect for themselves and others into both my son and daughter now it is up to them.

POPPYOSCAR

GobbledyGook wrote: »

I get that fashions change, and I know it makes me sound like a right fuddy-duddy when I'm only 30.

I just find it staggering to see people turn up to job interviews in jeans and trainers. The thing that gets me the most though is people's attire at formal social occasions like weddings and funerals. One girl at a recent wedding was carrying on this current fashion of a lace top with just a coloured bra on show underneath it. Fair enough for a night out if that's your style, but in a church for a wedding with no jacket on top? Surely that's a case for a mother to say "That's not appropriate to the occasion". Then again her mother had on a dress on that could only be described as partially covering her boobs, so maybe it's just people in general rather than young people.

Same with funerals. Unless the family state otherwise funeral attire should be smart and sombre imo. Blue jeans, trainers (white ones, not black ones), and a black t-shirt just isn't really funeral attire when attending the funeral of a colleague imo.

It's just not respectful to me. I think respect is so important and it seems to be getting somewhat lost.

This reminds me of when I was out shopping with my daughter the other day and we saw a girl with a tight white dress on. You could see her pink thong underneath. My daughter commented to me ' really mum? for a club I could understand it, but out shopping?'

POPPYOSCAR

poet123 wrote: »

And what views would those be Or are you looking for a cheap shot to avoid answering a difficult question?

Let me help you out.

I think I once said that many women actively seek out the bad boys, and want nothing to do with nice boys because they are boring. Then, when those bad boys revert to type when the honeymoon period is over they seem surprised. I stand by that opinion. That does not excuse the man in any shape or form,domestic violence is wrong, very wrong, but the woman has to bear some of the responsibility for setting that chain of events in action by actively seeking out that type of man.

I understand what you are saying.

A friend of mine has lived her whole life like that. She was only ever interested in 'bad boys' anyone who was nice to her soon fell by the wayside.She has had several disastrous relationships and is now in yet another one of the same ilk.

Its a bit like if you put your hand in the fire it will burn.

poet123

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

I understand what you are saying.

A friend of mine has lived her whole life like that. She was only ever interested in 'bad boys' anyone who was nice to her soon fell by the wayside.She has had several disastrous relationships and is now in yet another one of the same ilk.

Its a bit like if you put your hand in the fire it will burn.

Person_One believes that is an unacceptable viewpoint which condones domestic violence.