Self Respect vs Responsibility

GobbledyGook

Gingernutty wrote: »

It's easy to say to just ignore it, but how? ONce upon a time it was a big deal to tie up the family 'phone with a call, now a lot of young people not only have a 'phone, they have web access, FaceBook, Twitter, MySpace, some schools have their own websites with poor patrolled forums....the abuse, pressure, bullying and harrassment can be a 24/7 experience.

That's one of my biggest parenting worries. A reputation is going to be so much worse nowadays because of the 24/7 access kids have to each others lives. It's already starting - my daughter got grief from another 8-year-old because she doesn't have free access to Facebook. At 8!!

When I was at school things got forgotten over the holidays because you only seen the few people you were closest too. Now kids are in contact with each other all the time. There's also no escape if things get so bad you move schools because it just follows you online.


I agree with your comment about building the self esteem of the girls, but I think it's equally needed to do the same with boys. Kids seem to value themselves by sex these days and it's so sad. People in general seem to value themselves by their relationship status so much more now as well - it's like no-one has faith in themselves anymore if they are not being justified as a good person by someone else wanting them.

On a slight tangent, but not too big a one I wish people would teach their kids about appropriate attire for occasions. It seems to be slipping in society in general. Now you see young people turn up to weddings or job interviews in completely inappropriate attire. That doesn't stem from a lack of confidence though (imo), that stems from a "I'll do/wear what I like and I don't care who doesn't like it" attitude.

poet123

Person_one wrote: »

I did answer it, the answer is that it depends.

There are many many parents out there whose opinions on child raising I respect greatly, I can't possibly know from this forum if you are one of them.

There are also many parents who raise their children in a way I have absolutely no respect for, and I don't think the fact that they've done it means I automatically need to think their opinions (its ok to hit kids, having favourites, neglect, smoking near babies) are valid.

None of this has anything to do with what we were actually talking about though, you just don't like me and you want to catch me out.

You are still not answering the direct question. We are talking generally not on specific issues. Of course there will be differences of opinion between parents but generally speaking do you think your opinion on feeding a baby and childbirth not rearing is as valid as mine?

It is relevant to what we are talking about, you openly stated you believe your opinions to be more valid than many others I am trying to ascertain in what circumstance you would steadfastly believe that.

I neither like nor dislike you how could I? I can't possibly tell from this forum either way.;)

Nor am I trying to catch you out, I am trying to establish how and why you are so sure of your opinion on almost every subject under the sun when you have no experience of a great many of them. It interests and intrigues me to be honest. I have always had a level of self confidence, but hope I have always been able to recognise that my opinion on any given subject is not necessarily as valid as those who have done it, experienced it, lived it.

And so we go back to the aging feminists, I would bow to their experience, would you?

I don't suppose you will answer though!

lostinrates

GobbledyGook wrote: »

That's one of my biggest parenting worries. A reputation is going to be so much worse nowadays because of the 24/7 access kids have to each others lives. It's already starting - my daughter got grief from another 8-year-old because she doesn't have free access to Facebook. At 8!!

When I was at school things got forgotten over the holidays because you only seen the few people you were closest too. Now kids are in contact with each other all the time. There's also no escape if things get so bad you move schools because it just follows you online.


I agree with your comment about building the self esteem of the girls, but I think it's equally needed to do the same with boys. Kids seem to value themselves by sex these days and it's so sad. People in general seem to value themselves by their relationship status so much more now as well - it's like no-one has faith in themselves anymore if they are not being justified as a good person by someone else wanting them.

On a slight tangent, but not too big a one I wish people would teach their kids about appropriate attire for occasions. It seems to be slipping in society in general. Now you see young people turn up to weddings or job interviews in completely inappropriate attire. That doesn't stem from a lack of confidence though (imo), that stems from a "I'll do/wear what I like and I don't care who doesn't like it" attitude.

Sometimes, not all the time, i think this can be about self respect. As you say, the idea of sexual attractiveness being so vital some young people fail to realise this doesn't always equate with wearing what they want when they want. Their need to look how they feel confident looking and believe they are attractive is greater than the need to be appropriate to the circle outside their peer group. Part of 'i will wear what i like' often stems from...'because i do not have the confidence in myself when i do not'.

fashion has been reasonably important in my family, in a financial as well as personal sense and i admire creative and bold dressing, even boundary pushing dressing. But appropriate, creative and flatterying dressing is really very rare. And the appropriacy is often the key for being truely stylish.

Gingernutty

GobbledyGook wrote: »

On a slight tangent, but not too big a one I wish people would teach their kids about appropriate attire for occasions. It seems to be slipping in society in general. Now you see young people turn up to weddings or job interviews in completely inappropriate attire. That doesn't stem from a lack of confidence though (imo), that stems from a "I'll do/wear what I like and I don't care who doesn't like it" attitude.

Nope. It's all good.

The younger generation learn from the older generation - when I pass by the local Crown and Magistrates Court in town, I'm amazed at what is considered 'smartwear' by some people.

I'm 44 and wouldn't dream of showing up to court in jeans and trainers but there are those, my age and older, whose idea of a smart suit is a hoodie and trackies the same colour. :eek:

What's gone so wrong that some of our generation have lost all sense of propriety?

I'm obese. There are strappy vest tops my size, but would I wear them? No. There is just too little fabric and too much blubber.

And yet, there are women far larger than me in vest tops, leggings straining at the camel toe and they are dragging equally badly dressed children about.

I saw a woman who looked to be about my age on the bus yesterday with a teenager, a baby, a huge pram and a MaccyD's Happy Meal. She had rough looking tattoos, huge bling type earrings and pillar box red hair.

The two women had a food fight whist trying to cram that carp into the baby including a McFlurry. They left behind food and wrappers all the while loudly laughing and swearing about someone else who wasn't there.

They weren't respecting themselves, their environment or the baby's right to decent food.

What happened to self respect? Teaching the young'uns about not showing yourself up in public, dressing for the occasion and so on.

I know it's an old fashioned thing, but decorum is missing.

Gawd, I sound like Mary Whitehouse.....:o

*Louise*

Elle7 wrote: »

This is following on from the thread on children's life lessons a few days ago.

I was really interested in the argument that broke out regarding teaching young girls about their bodies and how school works in terms of gaining reputations and experimentation.

On the one hand, I do think that these are important lessons, and that girls should be discouraged from experimenting at a young age with every boy in the class, or sleeping with people in order to become popular. I even had a discussion with my younger sisters about how rolling up skirts or having low cut shirts gets them attention for the wrong reasons, from the wrong people.

On the other, I can understand the argument that the above almost makes them seem responsible for other peoples behaviour. Its understandable that by teaching the above at a young age, it may suggest to the girl that if they are raped or assaulted, it was their fault for the way they dressed or behaved.

I'd be really interested in other peoples views on this, and how they've educated their own daughters (or would educate them).

If this makes no sense, it's probably because of the large amount of morphine I'm taking for broken ribs. Apologies if that is the case Also, if I don't respond for a while, it's probably knocked me out.

I haven't read all 14 pages, so apologies if this has already been said in between your discussion, a few topic changes and possibly an argument or two between posters

...but why do we (society) always seem to focus on just teaching this to girls?

I have two boys and a girl and intend to teach the boys about self respect (and how to have respect for girls) just as much as i will teach my daughter. I don't want them sleeping around with just anyone, it's not just down to girls having self respect.

I hate how boys can sleep around with no ridicule yet girls end up with a reputation - I think both sexes should slow down and be a little more choosy with their number of sexual partners.

*Louise*

Gingernutty wrote: »

What happened to self respect? Teaching the young'uns about not showing yourself up in public, dressing for the occasion and so on.

I know it's an old fashioned thing, but decorum is missing.

Gawd, I sound like Mary Whitehouse.....:o

I have to agree actually

I work with teenagers - I get through to a lot of them, but a lot of behaviour isn't reinforced at home

poet123

*Louise* wrote: »

I haven't read all 14 pages, so apologies if this has already been said in between your discussion, a few topic changes and possibly an argument or two between posters

...but why do we (society) always seem to focus on just teaching this to girls?

I have two boys and a girl and intend to teach the boys about self respect (and how to have respect for girls) just as much as i will teach my daughter. I don't want them sleeping around with just anyone, it's not just down to girls having self respect.

I hate how boys can sleep around with no ridicule yet girls end up with a reputation - I think both sexes should slow down and be a little more choosy with their number of sexual partners.

I agree with you, and we should strive to avoid the double standard where it is ok for boys and not for girls. I only have boys and have always made them aware of that.

Person_one

poet123 wrote: »

I agree with you, and we should strive to avoid the double standard where it is ok for boys and not for girls. I only have boys and have always made them aware of that.

I only hope they don't pick up on your views about victims of domestic violence.

poet123

Person_one wrote: »

I only hope they don't pick up on your views about victims of domestic violence.

And what views would those be Or are you looking for a cheap shot to avoid answering a difficult question?

Let me help you out.

I think I once said that many women actively seek out the bad boys, and want nothing to do with nice boys because they are boring. Then, when those bad boys revert to type when the honeymoon period is over they seem surprised. I stand by that opinion. That does not excuse the man in any shape or form,domestic violence is wrong, very wrong, but the woman has to bear some of the responsibility for setting that chain of events in action by actively seeking out that type of man.

BugglyB

Come on you guys. No need to pull each other to shreds.

Regarding clothes: surely each generation thinks that about the next? My great grandad thought every man should wear a hat and women shouldn't wear trousers!