Self Respect vs Responsibility

Arg

preciousillusions wrote: »

I would strongly suggest everyone reads this article (especially if you are trying to argue against the existence/damage of victim blaming!): http://ontoberlin.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/tale-of-two-rape-prevention-campaigns.html

A childish reaction to warnings given out to be responsible and aware of danger

thatgirlsam I don't like the comparison between rape and theft of property. It's chalk and cheese imo

It's all part of the same subject in this context.

poet123

Person_one wrote: »

Remember those noisy feminist from the seventies? A lot of them are still around and if they seem quiet its probably just because they're thoroughly depressed that some attitudes have barely changed in 40 years!

A lot of them are still around my Aunt is one of them. She now has some grave reservations over her feminist ideals, she believes that a lot of the changes have not been that beneficial to women, and that instead of giving them choice it has actually given them more pressure.

BugglyB

I think there are two kinds of parallel conversation going on here about what are the risks and what do people think.

If your 15 year old girl wants to go to pizza hut with you in a crop top and teeny tiny shorts you're not going to stop her cos you're worried about her being raped, you're not, cos shes with you. You're going to stop her cos you're worried about what other people think and how they will judge her and how they will judge you.

lostinrates

BugglyB wrote: »

I think there are two kinds of parallel conversation going on here about what are the risks and what do people think.

If your 15 year old girl wants to go to pizza hut with you in a crop top and teeny tiny shorts you're not going to stop her cos you're worried about her being raped, you're not, cos shes with you. You're going to stop her cos you're worried about what other people think and how they will judge her and how they will judge you.

And, in reference to the op about her self respect, how she views her self and in what context. Sounds like a great outfit for a group trip to the beach, especially on a beautiful young body to be proud of.

poet123

Kiboko wrote: »

I wouldn't get into an unlicenced cab - but not because i'd be scared of being assulted, because if it's involved in an accident there would be no insurance!

When I had children my way of looking at risks and dangers changed, being a parent does not automatically mean you do the right thing the right way, you want to keep your children safe by any means possible. Theorising about a perfect world is all very well but the fact remains people judge. They judge young girls dressed in skimpy clothing in a certain way, I don't want my daughters to be judged in that way and I therefore encourage them not to dress provocatively. The people judging may well be bigoted, or potential rapists I don't care I don't want my children judged by any of them.

People do judge and some of those people have bad intent.

I remember some years ago we had been to a restaurant in town and ended up in the local retro disco because the daughter of one of the party was working there as a waitress whilst in college.This place was a magnet for middle aged men and women "on the pull" it was an eye opener!!

We watched all these men leering at scantily clad young girls and we actually watched one pick out the drunkest one and start to chat her up. She could barely stand, and he was trying to get her to go home with him. My OH said he has never been so glad before or since that we only had boys. He actually warned the chap off, saying that he should back off because she was so drunk.

Anyway, long story short we ended up getting my friends daughter to speak to the bouncers and he was politely told to leave, the girl was then put in a taxi with one of the staff who was going home sick. That man homed in on her as we watched, he had made a judgement that she would be "up for it" and acted accordingly. I often think about that incident and wonder what would have happened if we hadn't been there.

Person_one

poet123 wrote: »

A lot of them are still around my Aunt is one of them. She now has some grave reservations over her feminist ideals, she believes that a lot of the changes have not been that beneficial to women, and that instead of giving them choice it has actually given them more pressure.

We're only halfway there though, it ain't over yet.

POPPYOSCAR

Person_one wrote: »

We're only halfway there though, it ain't over yet.

What is the other half then?

Person_one

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

What is the other half then?

Dear me, where to begin!

We (well most of us) have recognised as a society that women and men should be considered of equal value and importance and that they should have the same rights. There is legislation against discrimination, its pretty much all there on paper apart from equality in parental leave.

What needs to follow is a catch up in attitudes, as is clear from this thread and about a million others on MSE!

I'm not going to even try to list every little thing that is not yet right, I'd be here all night and I doubt anybody would actually think about it very much.

POPPYOSCAR

I might not agree with you on some things but I am always interested in what others have to say.

Are we a 'happy' society do you think? Sometimes I think the happiest societies are those that lead the most basic lives. They do not appear to have murder, suicide, theft, etc. and yet the men and women have completely different roles within that society and it seems to work for them. Just a thought.

poet123

Person_one wrote: »

Dear me, where to begin!

We (well most of us) have recognised as a society that women and men should be considered of equal value and importance and that they should have the same rights. There is legislation against discrimination, its pretty much all there on paper apart from equality in parental leave.

What needs to follow is a catch up in attitudes, as is clear from this thread and about a million others on MSE!

I'm not going to even try to list every little thing that is not yet right, I'd be here all night and I doubt anybody would actually think about it very much.

So correct me if I am wrong, but what you are really saying is that in part, the opinions and attitudes of some of those on this thread are responsible for " not being there yet" and are not as valid as those of the section of society who ascribe to themselves the term "feminist"?
This despite the fact that many or most of those posters are in fact women.

I really don't see how that fits with the aims of feminism.

I would be interested to hear what specific things you want to see changed and how.