Bottle feeding and guilt

looby75

Person_one wrote: »

I do actually think that the thread wouldn't have gone so 'debatey' if she hadn't told us she was leaving it. I wouldn't have posted if I didn't know she wasn't reading, anyway.

breast v bottle threads always do in my experience

mildred1978

poet123 wrote: »

The old debate which polarises mothers is easily summed up; do what suits you and your baby and that is what is best. Guilt over your choice is imposed by others, don't allow it, your body, your choice. Happy, healthy, high achieving babies are bottlefed too!!

Do you mean formula fed? As I pointed out earlier, bottles don't have to contain formula.

peachyprice

mildred1978 wrote: »

Exactly. But the babies got breastmilk that way

Yes, they still got breast milk, but the fact remains that the choice not to feed your own baby has always been there. Women have never had to struggle on BF when they couldn't/didn't want to.

The only difference is that since the invention of formula women now have the benefit of sharing the closeness of feeding time with their baby rather than baby bonding with a wet nurse. Don't know about you, but I think that's a rather positive thing.

poet123

mildred1978 wrote: »

Do you mean formula fed? As I pointed out earlier, bottles don't have to contain formula.

No, they don't have to contain formula, but in common usage that is what is understood by bottle fed.

dizziblonde

mildred1978 wrote: »

I struggled with BF for many many weeks, but ended up BFing for a year. I am well aware that it isn't easy, and that there's a choice. I'm horrified by the way some professionals behave toward new mothers.

My post outlined the science, not my beliefs. Humans wouldn't have gotten very far if we (the majority of the time) couldn't deal with childbirth or feeding babies. It's a relatively recent change that's given a choice.

It's very simple - my daughter would quite simply be dead. Without formula to go down her NG tube - she, like lots of other babies born before that point where sucking reflexes are established, wouldn't have made it.

Easier to stand there and condemn "bottle feeding" (and for the first month as many of those bottles as possible contained breast milk while I could still produce it) mothers - without thinking of that nasty reality and the potential dead babies... they're generally ignored in that nice pat "oh humanity wouldn't have survived if women genuinely couldn't breast feed" argument - but I know a heck of a LOT of babies that were born without any other real issues who simply wouldn't have made it without formula, tubes, drips and other "artificial" methods of feeding.

Or would it be acceptable to sacrifice them on the holy altar of breastfeeding - because then you're basically doing the equivalent of coming, looking at my daughter and telling her she should be dead because she was born too soon to figure out how mummy's boobs worked through no fault of her own.

poet123

dizziblonde wrote: »

It's very simple - my daughter would quite simply be dead. Without formula to go down her NG tube - she, like lots of other babies born before that point where sucking reflexes are established, wouldn't have made it.

Easier to stand there and condemn "bottle feeding" (and for the first month as many of those bottles as possible contained breast milk while I could still produce it) mothers - without thinking of that nasty reality and the potential dead babies... they're generally ignored in that nice pat "oh humanity wouldn't have survived if women genuinely couldn't breast feed" argument - but I know a heck of a LOT of babies that were born without any other real issues who simply wouldn't have made it without formula, tubes, drips and other "artificial" methods of feeding.

Or would it be acceptable to sacrifice them on the holy altar of breastfeeding - because then you're basically doing the equivalent of coming, looking at my daughter and telling her she should be dead because she was born too soon to figure out how mummy's boobs worked through no fault of her own.

To be fair, I don't think Mildred is arguing with you on any of those points.

dizziblonde

poet123 wrote: »

To be fair, I don't think Mildred is arguing with you on any of those points.

Everytime threads like this come up, they inevitably descend into a milk-storm (it's like a you-know-what-storm but less brown and smelly) and the two lines that always come up are:

You just didn't try hard enough to breastfeed

Women who say they couldn't breastfeed are liars because in the past when there was no formula... yadda yadda yadda

Funnily when anyone with genuine reasons (and there are a LOT of tales of heartache out there) comments - they're immediately met with an "Oh, we didn't mean YOU - just those other women." But when you start trotting these lines out indiscrimately - you hurt and insult and condemn indiscriminately and you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Off the top of my head, in recent months I can think of at least 5-6 MSE babies who've had stints in NICU for prematurity - which, as I mentions, raises issues regarding feeding, especially for babies born at that point before the sucking reflex becomes established around the end of week 34/week35... it's more common than people tend to realise - and when the comments about "oh well the human race didn't die out before formula" come along - they DO basically equate to the death argument where these kind of babies are concerned.

No other group of parents would be expected to sit back and let lines of argument that, if followed to their logical conclusion, would result in the death of their child, go by unchallenged.... so why formula feeders?

I forgot - it's the last line of officially-sanctioned bullying potential. And THAT, dear friends, is completely and totally and utterly WRONGER THAN A VERY WRONG THING.

mildred1978

poet123 wrote: »

To be fair, I don't think Mildred is arguing with you on any of those points.

Spot on. Thank you.

I am pro choice. I consider myself lucky that I was able to feed my son, and don't look down on anyone that either can't or doesn't want to breastfeed. It's a very very personal thing (and no, the NHS doesn't understand that).

A bit OT, but I've actually seen both sides of the coin - I know of 'western' babies that wouldn't survive without formula and African babies that would not survive because of it. It's very hard to balance that out.

poet123

dizziblonde wrote: »

Everytime threads like this come up, they inevitably descend into a milk-storm (it's like a you-know-what-storm but less brown and smelly) and the two lines that always come up are:

You just didn't try hard enough to breastfeed

Women who say they couldn't breastfeed are liars because in the past when there was no formula... yadda yadda yadda

Funnily when anyone with genuine reasons (and there are a LOT of tales of heartache out there) comments - they're immediately met with an "Oh, we didn't mean YOU - just those other women." But when you start trotting these lines out indiscrimately - you hurt and insult and condemn indiscriminately and you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Off the top of my head, in recent months I can think of at least 5-6 MSE babies who've had stints in NICU for prematurity - which, as I mentions, raises issues regarding feeding, especially for babies born at that point before the sucking reflex becomes established around the end of week 34/week35... it's more common than people tend to realise - and when the comments about "oh well the human race didn't die out before formula" come along - they DO basically equate to the death argument where these kind of babies are concerned.

No other group of parents would be expected to sit back and let lines of argument that, if followed to their logical conclusion, would result in the death of their child, go by unchallenged.... so why formula feeders?

I forgot - it's the last line of officially-sanctioned bullying potential. And THAT, dear friends, is completely and totally and utterly WRONGER THAN A VERY WRONG THING .

I agree with every word you have written here, but I don't think Mildred in particular was expounding this view, merely adding context.

I bottle fed four children by choice, yes, I had SCBU issues with three of them, but regardless, I had never intended to breastfeed.

I never felt a moments guilt then, or now. I now have four happy, healthy, high achieving adults. For me, the condescension, and outright bullying some mothers experience is a disgrace and does need to be addressed. It is endemic and counter productive.

mildred1978

dizziblonde wrote: »

Everytime threads like this come up, they inevitably descend into a milk-storm (it's like a you-know-what-storm but less brown and smelly) and the two lines that always come up are:

You just didn't try hard enough to breastfeed

Women who say they couldn't breastfeed are liars because in the past when there was no formula... yadda yadda yadda

Funnily when anyone with genuine reasons (and there are a LOT of tales of heartache out there) comments - they're immediately met with an "Oh, we didn't mean YOU - just those other women." But when you start trotting these lines out indiscrimately - you hurt and insult and condemn indiscriminately and you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

.

How DARE you. That is not what I said, intended or intimated.

I know a lot of mothers. Some found breastfeeding easy, others never wanted to try. A couple were completely heartbroken that they were unable to feed their babies themselves and saw every bottle of formula as failure. They would express every drop they could, no matter how little because that was what they wanted to do.

As someone else said, by the time they're 5 or 6 nobody can tell the difference anyway!!