Is "tough love" acceptable for depression - slight rant (sorry)

Boots888

LouLou wrote: »

It's very easy for people to think "lazy, self-pitying, morose b&gger" when the reality can be that you can't cope or control your thought processes and emotional reactions.

The key is finding a way to live with it and still function. Sadly I don't have those answers. Hopefully the OP and her husband can turn a corner and keep life in balance somehow.

PS: Thanks for the links, ab7

PPS: Has anyone tried EFT? All the tapping business sounds like hokum but some rave about it.

Yeah some call it tapping, others call it as it is - banging your head against a wall - a lot easier to do alone without the worry of a partner, who doesn't have a clue why you're doing it:j

LouLou

This is quite a sad story but a perspective of a woman living with a husband over many decades who has depression (he does sound pretty selfish and controlling, I would point out that those aren't typical attributes of a depressive..I'm more self-less than anything, when I can be ): http://depressionfalloutmessageboard.yuku.com/topic/7634/A-lifetime-of-limbo

It's wonderful that this woman is so forgiving, loving and stoic through their ups and downs but his behaviour is veering towards abusive.

Edit: Did you find that EFT helped you emotionally/breaking bad emotional habits/bringing calm (which it's supposed to do) Boots888?

lostinrates

LouLou wrote: »

(he does sound pretty selfish and controlling, I would point out that those aren't typical attributes of a depressive..I'm more self-less than anything, when I can be ): ?

any one with any other personality traits could suffer from depression i think, i don't think any one is immune. But, as the non sufferer in to family realtionships with depression i want to say that nothing is more infuriating than when the sufferer tells you how selfless they are. My two are actually selfish people, not selfish depressives, and depression is not the only issue, but their personalities do not drop the selfishness or controlling behaviour when depressed. In fact, one far from it, the depression is used as a tool for control.

I am sure not all people suffering are selfish, any more than is represented amoung non sufferers at large,but equally sure its not that unusual!

LouLou

Well, I was only talking about myself. It's never wise to generalise about any group of people, we are all different.

And I'm sure being late/not turning up for appointments/not returning phone calls are considered behaviours of a selfish person (things I do when I'm feeling cr*p).

Whether I am truly selfish or selfless is for the other people in my life to judge, I suppose. But I'd be horrified if people felt I was manipulating or leeching from them in some way. That's why isolation seems like the best option, too. Being around a depressive is hard work for everyone in their orbit. The problem is, isolation makes things *worse* more often than not.

My earlier link from the wife's perspective seems to have the husband using his depression as a tool to control her, and as an excuse for bad behaviour. Really awful.

Boots888

lostinrates wrote: »

any one with any other personality traits could suffer from depression i think, i don't think any one is immune. But, as the non sufferer in to family realtionships with depression i want to say that nothing is more infuriating than when the sufferer tells you how selfless they are. My two are actually selfish people, not selfish depressives, and depression is not the only issue, but their personalities do not drop the selfishness or controlling behaviour when depressed. In fact, one far from it, the depression is used as a tool for control.

I am sure not all people suffering are selfish, any more than is represented amoung non sufferers at large,but equally sure its not that unusual!

To the contrary, most people suffering from depression are made to feel that they are manipulating people, when in fact the are just being honest with their feelings.

It's people struggling at the most sensitive time of their lives against people who seem cold and insesitive to others around them. Sufferiing from depression is anything but selfish, it's a very scary, lonely place to be.

And as proved time and again, you can live and love someone for years but you'll never understand them entirely.

All this erratic behaviour, Good God!! Pull yourself together - pull me back to my comfort zone and behave like you always have!! That's selfish.

Boots888

LouLou wrote: »

Well, I was only talking about myself. It's never wise to generalise about any group of people, we are all different.

My earlier link from the wife's perspective seems to have the husband using his depression as a tool to control her, and as an excuse for bad behaviour. Really awful.

No one with depression uses it as a tool to control anyone or anything. It's not black magic as some people think and certainly not used against those you love.

They've lost control of themselves and the last thing on their minds is to think outside of any box and control what might be worrying you.

It's a selfless illness, wholey and utterly and needs understanding and support.:cool:

lostinrates

Boots888 wrote: »

To the contrary, most people suffering from depression are made to feel that they are manipulating people, when in fact the are just being honest with their feelings.

It's people struggling at the most sensitive time of their lives against people who seem cold and insesitive to others around them. Sufferiing from depression is anything but selfish, it's a very scary, lonely place to be.

And as proved time and again, you can live and love someone for years but you'll never understand them entirely.

All this erratic behaviour, Good God!! Pull yourself together - pull me back to my comfort zone and behave like you always have!! That's selfish.

To be absolutely clear i do not think suffering from dression is selfish. However, i do not think it is selfless either.

I think whether someone is selfish or not will depend more on their personality. I also think sometimes being a little selfish can be protection against getting into situtations one cannot handle, and that is no bad thing.

Sadly,sometimes key points of sensitivity occur at times as the non sufferer is also at high stress points in life, and sometimes indeed, it is out of compassion for the loved non sufferer the sufferer seems to have 'episodes'. Imo sometimes withdrawing then would be best. Eg, having someone phone you crying at four oclock in the morning before an exam because they cannot cope they are so worried about your exams,Your furture, where they will be in your life after that is not selfless!

Boots888

lostinrates wrote: »

To be absolutely clear i do not think suffering from dression is selfish. However, i do not think it is selfless either.

I think whether someone is selfish or not will depend more on their personality. I also think sometimes being a little selfish can be protection against getting into situtations one cannot handle, and that is no bad thing.

Sadly,sometimes key points of sensitivity occur at times as the non sufferer is also at high stress points in life, and sometimes indeed, it is out of compassion for the loved non sufferer the sufferer seems to have 'episodes'. Imo sometimes withdrawing then would be best. Eg, having someone phone you crying at four oclock in the morning before an exam because they cannot cope they are so worried about your exams, is not selfless!

Someone calling you at 4am worrying about exams is not depression, for a start they wouldn't be sitting them.

And as the concerns of the OP's post, it can be confused with laziness, indifference etc.

But never does one use it as a tool to manupulate others. It's not a selfish state where sufferers are ever able to wing themselves out of certain situation. Yes, they are highly likely to give up trying, that's not the same. It's just a need to stop having to confront everything it their way, all the time (including the washing up)

Boots888

& it's got nothing to do with personality whatsoever.

It can hit the strongest of people at any point, nobody is immune.

I thought we'd moved on from such attitudes - long ago.

Clearly not! (sad)

lostinrates

Boots888 wrote: »

& it's got nothing to do with personality whatsoever.

It can hit the strongest of people at any point, nobody is immune.

I thought we'd moved on from such attitudes - long ago.

Clearly not! (sad)

Boots, i think you are misunderstanding and misreading my posts. I am saying just the same as tou are here....personality is not a protection. We could all become depressed. Nice peopel and less nice peope. Having depression does not turn someone into a saint.

And as to the other post you took me up on, the person with depression was not sitting exams, you are right, I WAS, yet had to field calls while going through normal teenage stresses and was told when i was not available i was letting them down, and if that the doctor said i was part of the problem for not being there to be a support when they needed me, and hints were made that if 'something happened' i was to know it was not my fault i was too busy at the time. Now, as an adult i know that i am not my brother (or other family members) keeper, but during exams as a teenager, its harder to cope with other people 's very real illness. This person when well would still behave badly, but less reliantly, they are normal flawed person with selfish streak that is present ill or well. (as are their non suffering loved ones normal flawed people)