Is "tough love" acceptable for depression - slight rant (sorry)

Taadaa

I had a bout of depression in 2008. I was off work for 7 weeks. I slept, watched a lot of mindless tv and lost my appetite. They are physical symptoms for some people.

I did start going out for short walks, then longer ones. My counsellor set me challenges each week. Maybe you should speak to a charity about how you van help. I can assure you being tough won't help one jot.

LouLou

It is a bit "chicken and egg", depression. How much of it is someone's personality influencing their actions versus the illness?

As lostinrates points out, being depressed doesn't mean a person is a saint or someone of virtue (I can vouch for this, having a depressed friend who used to nitpick every conversation we had, talk over me for hours and ruminate out loud ignoring my attempts to lighten the mood..he was a bore who specialised in monologues, and a hypochondriac. I really tried to be kind to him). It was a lesson learned for me, being around him, as no way did I want my friends to think of me in those terms.

My way of dealing with it, when socialising, is just not to talk about it, and sheen over my reasons for going AWOL. We all deal with it differently. I don't want to be a burden or a drag around friends.

But I know not every depressed person has that anger and self-obsessed personality that my friend had, either.

Whether it makes your bad attributes worse, or makes you act out-of-character, really depends on the individual.

Boots888

Lostinrates,

Sorry for misunderstanding.

What I will say is that it's particularly hard for family members to involve themselves if their siblings are suffering.

I know this all too well, aswell. You want to do your best, what's right for them but it never, ever works. It's also not ethical. (don't take that the wrong way)

Families need support themselves but must get 3rd party help for those affected. One cannot open up completely with those they have a history with and are best helped by someone not connected in any way.

If we could all confide in our friends and family, forums like this wouldn't be so popular.

I just want to stick up for those at their lowest, most vulnerable times regarding this illness. It's very important it gets understood.

lostinrates

Boots888 wrote: »

Lostinrates,

Sorry for misunderstanding.

What I will say is that it's particularly hard for family members to involve themselves if their siblings are suffering.

I know this all too well, aswell. You want to do your best, what's right for them but it never, ever works. It's also not ethical. (don't take that the wrong way)

Families need support themselves but must get 3rd party help for those affected. One cannot open up completely with those they have a history with and are best helped by someone not connected in any way.

If we could all confide in our friends and family, forums like this wouldn't be so popular.

I just want to stick up for those at their lowest, most vulnerable times regarding this illness. It's very important it gets understood.

Apology accepted, but it does make clear, we are all flawed,

In fact, this was not a brother, i do not have one of those, but a parent. (i also have a sister who suffers from mental illness) Third party help can be involved, but does not necessarily reduce the stress or impact for the non suffering carer, particularly when they are a minor or young adult. also, the sufferer may refuse help, or avcept he, go through the motions with it nominally but not follow through in actuality. For any number of reason, and still rely on a family member or friend. As a child or sibling not being there is a big decision, especially if the sufferer has been suicidal, or as i said earlier, is manipulative...note, i do not say suicide attempt is manipulation, they exist independantly from each other, but can SOMETIMES be related.
In my case i never want to involve myself i step back, i am not able to be carer. However, that does not stop the calls the asking for help.
You are right, depression, and other mental illness, needs to be understood, but i do not feel that is best supported for the sufferer, or those arount them, to pretend all depressives are selfless and the carer not coping well is uncaring, selfish or not sympathetic. Balancing sympathy with the inevitable guilt as a child or sibling is incredibly hard, and such accusations are as ridiculous as 'blaming' someone for getting depression.

Boots888

LouLou wrote: »

It is a bit "chicken and egg", depression. How much of it is someone's personality influencing their actions versus the illness?

As lostinrates points out, being depressed doesn't mean a person is a saint or someone of virtue (I can vouch for this, having a depressed friend who used to nitpick every conversation we had, talk over me for hours and ruminate out loud ignoring my attempts to lighten the conversation..he was a bore who specialised in monologues, and a hypochondriac. I really tried to be kind to him). It was a lesson learned for me, being around him, as no way did I want my friends to think of me in those terms.

My way of dealing with it, when socialising, is just not to talk about it, and sheen over my reasons for going AWOL. We all deal with it differently. I don't want to be a burden or a drag around friends.

But I know not every depressed person has that anger and self-obsessed personality that my friend had, either.

Whether it makes your bad attributes worse, or makes you act out-of-character, really depends on the individual.

I think it depends on the level of depression and help and understanding you have. I think it can bring out the worst in people, all people.

You don't know what's happening to you till its too late, you are like a rabbit caught in headlights and expected to cope as normal. It's fight or flight - most can't run away and hide so you're stuck in a world which keeps on turning when yours has come to a complete standstill. It's overwhelming, even for the most experienced in life and very hard to return to your old self - it that time everything has changed, your whole outlook.

Some come back, some come back a different person unbeknownst to their loved ones. And a few don't come back at all. It's not the strenght of character, its how hard it hits you.

LouLou

Boots888 wrote: »

I think it depends on the level of depression and help and understanding you have. I think it can bring out the worst in people, all people.

You don't know what's happening to you till its too late, you are like a rabbit caught in headlights and expected to cope as normal. It's fight or flight - most can't run away and hide so you're stuck in a world which keeps on turning when yours has come to a complete standstill. It's overwhelming, even for the most experienced in life and very hard to return to your old self - it that time everything has changed, your whole outlook.

Some come back, some come back a different person unbeknownst to their loved ones. And a few don't come back at all. It's not the strenght of character, its how hard it hits you.

It's probably not fair of me to mention him on here, I think he had a combination of a pompous personality, arrogance and the depression just highlighted his bad points. He could be a kind soul too..just totally, totally wrapped up in himself. He thrived on self-pity and sympathy and blamed the government for all his woes (and he was very into conspiracy theories, but that's a whole other thread).

Whereas in company, I can sometimes be distracted, like a toddler. I seem to be very sensitive to other's personalities. If I'm with a group of upbeat extroverts I'll usually tune into their energy.

If I'm with morose people..I really need to get out of there after a while!

Boots888

lostinrates wrote: »

Apology accepted, but it does make clear, we are all flawed,

In fact, this was not a brother, i do not have one of those, but a parent. (i also have a sister who suffers from mental illness) Third party help can be involved, it does not necessarily reduce the stress or impact for the non suffering carer, particularly when they are a minor or young adult.

You are right, depression, and other mental illness, needs to be understood, but i do not feel that is best supported for the sufferer, or those arount them, to pretend all depressives are selfless and the carer not coping well is uncaring, selfish or not sympathetic. Balancing sympathy with the inevitable guilt as a child or sibling is incredibly hard, and such accusations are as ridiculous as 'blaming' someone for getting depression.

I never said that but it's not about you or those around the sufferer. Granted it's hard, but unless you are the sufferer it's not about anyone else.

Mental illness is not like caring for someone whose broken a bone, you cannot see the depth of despair nor predict a timeline of recovery. You need the love and compassion of friends and family that will never subside, and you need proffessional help to get you as far back to normality as possible. If you don't have the former, you may aswell give up on relying on the latter.

lostinrates

Boots888 wrote: »

I never said that but it's not about you or those around the sufferer. Granted it's hard, but unless you are the sufferer it's not about anyone else.

Mental illness is not like caring for someone whose broken a bone, you cannot see the depth of despair nor predict a timeline of recovery. You need the love and compassion of friends and family that will never subside, and you need proffessional help to get you as far back to normality as possible. If you don't have the former, you may aswell give up on relying on the latter.

Medically its about the sufferer, but clearly interms of impact its not just limited to the sufferer!

As for compassion, its very hard ro have compassion at rimes dor sufferers in your family, hence why i sympathise with op. that is not a jice thing to admit, but its true. To deny it would be to be dishonest about the emotions and impact of being in any relationship with a sufferer, and being a related to aomeone who suffers and not likeing it could well be the new stigma.

Incidentally, tbh, i think your statement about the need for family love and compassion is somewhat manipulative in context, and contradictory. If friends and family support is needed the impact must be felt by the and somewhat create an issue that is to a degree 'abput them' or becoming a factor in them. Some people don't have family, for example, we should not presume they may never be well again with other appropriate support.

Boots888

LouLou wrote: »

It's probably not fair of me to mention him on here, I think he had a combination of a pompous personality, arrogance and the depression just highlighted his bad points. He could be a kind soul too..just totally, totally wrapped up in himself. He thrived on self-pity and sympathy and blamed the government for all his woes (and he was very into conspiracy theories, but that's a whole other thread).

Whereas in company, I can sometimes be distracted, like a toddler. I seem to be very sensitive to other's personalities. If I'm with a group of upbeat extroverts I'll usually tune into their energy.

If I'm with morose people..I really need to get out of there after a while!

& Quite right too, who wants to be surrounded by depressives. Like any other minority group, they're alright for about 5 minutes.:rotfl:But you want to get back to your own don't you, back to your comfort zone - people with 2 legs, 2 arms, vision, speach etc I know, I know!!!

They say "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy" but I can think of a few Pompous, arragant, self centered people I'd love to experience the lowest depths of this illness, if only so show them humility. :mad:

LouLou

Boots888 wrote: »

They say "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy" but I can think of a few Pompous, arragant, self centered people I'd love to experience the lowest depths of this illness, if only so show them humility. :mad:

I wouldn't wish depression on anyone, no matter what I thought of them, actually. I really try not to think of the world as "us and them", or to harbour resentment..it's just a pointless and destructive way of thinking for me.

Sleep deprivation is a torture for a reason (and it makes my depression a zillion times worse)!

I do have *some* of me to give, emotionally, but there has to be give and take. But depressives by their very nature, being locked in their heads and their thoughts, can behave in a way that appears selfish to those on the outside looking in.