Is "tough love" acceptable for depression - slight rant (sorry)

Byatt

lobbyludd, I also have seen it from both sides, and appreciate how hard it is for a partner/family member to live with someone with depression. You've written excellent posts, describing depression and acknowledging that it is hard to live with a depressive. I wouldn't want to live with me when I am depressed.

I would also like to add that people can appear to function outwardly when depressed but inwardly are in turmoil.

OP, is your husband having counselling, or able to? I hope the medication starts to really kick in, but if not, then it should be discussed with Dr.

Take care of yourself and don't try to be all things to him. And don't feel guilty if you can enjoy yourself every so often.

BitterAndTwisted

No, tough love is not acceptable or even kind when dealing with someone genuinely suffering from depression but neither is pandering to them and allowing them to get off the hook at every opportunity. Something in-between is possibly the right strategy. Encouragement but no blame or recriminations..

You do sound rather unsympathetic and hard-hearted. Remember those "for better, for worse" vows you took? This is the "for worse" bit. In spades.

But having said that, family members who are trying to live their lives and cope with everything else the depressed person can't very often need help and support themselves. It can be terribly stressful and draining. As I think you can appreciate now that you're in the middle of it yourself.

lostinrates

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

No, tough love is not acceptable or even kind when dealing with someone genuinely suffering from depression but neither is pandering to them and allowing them to get off the hook at every opportunity. Something in-between is possibly the right strategy. Encouragement but no blame or recriminations..

You do sound rather unsympathetic and hard-hearted. Remember those "for better, for worse" vows you took? This is the "for worse" bit. In spades.

But having said that, family members who are trying to live their lives and cope with everything else the depressed person can't very often need help and support themselves. It can be terribly stressful and draining. As I think you can appreciate now that you're in the middle of it yourself.

This comes closest to how i feel, but i suppose it depends what you call tought love. There are times when i cannot cope with the demands placed upon me by people close to me who suffer from depression, i tell them i love them, feel for them but CANNOT take calls every hour and have my life continue to function, nor can i go on spending sprees, and i will tell them i think they are wrong too as well when they have no dough. I know a lot of people who would say that is cruel, but i have to be able to keep my own life afloat too.

Fwiw, i accept what is sauce for the goose, when i was very ill, (pysical illness) my depressed family kept well away unable to cope and delegated responsibility to my then bf! And that was ok, they had to cope within their ability too.

Catmom

lobbyludd wrote: »

Obviously everyone's experience of depression is different. I've been moderately and severely depressed many times. No two episodes were the same. I've had ones where I also had high levels of anxiety and couldn't cross strangers on the pavement, I couldn't sleep at all and was manically cleaning because of anxiety about the state of my house, I've had episodes where going to the bathroom was as much as I could physically do in 24 hours. in some episodes I could eat in others I couldn't, in some I would eat whatever waas put in front of me (but could taste essentially nothing).

for me though most had some common themes: I was incapable of making very simple decisions (is it safe to cross the road now? are you hungry?), it is difficult to describe but my brain just does not function in a normal way at all, in part this is because I am constantly being assaulted by my own thoughts and feelings regarding how worthless I am, it's like a storm of knives contantly raining into my mind: a relentless maelstrom of brutal, violent thoughts from myself about me, piercing and damaging me. Whilst depressed I can look like I'm doing nothing, and yet I'm fighting a milisecond by milisecond battle against giving into my own thoughts and the unbearable pain of how disgustingly worthless and actively damaging I am. How my presence in my children's life harms them, how I am the worst sort of evil person, a sociopath, reliving over and over, every thing I have ever done that I am less than proud of, where I could have hurt someone (however minor, or inadvertant), how I do not deserve to be loved, and that it would be better for the world if I ceased to be. (these aren't expressed thoughts to those around me, for "effect", "attention" etc, I completely beleive that every minor grumpiness I've ever exhibited makes me more evil than serial killing child molesters).

I'm not any of these things, and when well, I can see the very real insanity of this.

To the observer though, I'm lying on the sofa, watching mindless TV.

"wallowing" sounds luxorious doesn't it? somehow like a warm comforting cosy blanket, a good old cry and those endorphins flood through making you feel better.

My experience of depression is anything but cosy, it is terryfying, brutal and violent, and there is no respite from it. When I am clinically depressed my endorphins don't work, there is no feeling better, no relief, no brief glimpses of the possibility of joy: none (and my brain is tricked into believing that there never has been either). There is either intense violent self-loathing or a complete void.

and for the poster who said otherwise, people in the third world do indeed lie down and die, or kill themselves.

All of that said, OP: please go and see your gp and get some support for yourself, depression is EXTREMELY hard to live alongside, there will be support groups from others in your situation,and you have every right to be feeling the way you do. Tough love may or may not help him, but it is not your job to heal him (you can't) and if you go under too, then where will you all be? Time to practice some self-care I think? good luck

I respond really well to the SSRIs and usually within a few weeks I'm able to do most things (i'm a single parent of 2 young kids who works full-time), but I also have to let go a lot of stuff (housework is now thankfully relegated to a very non-priority position, and I haven't ironed anything non-crafty in 20-odd years )

:T:T:T:T:T:T:T
Just wanted to say how brilliantly you worded this, such a close reflection of my own experiences for the past 30 years. Thank you

uk_american

There are a few good books out there, about caring for someone with depression, which may give you some fresh insight and ideas.

Your library may be a source for them, ones such as this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Black-Dog-Matthew-Johnstone/dp/1845297431/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1335036583&sr=8-5#_

Person_one

Hootie19 wrote: »

But our wedding vows included "in sickness and in health", and as I took them seriously when I married him, I'm hardly likely to throw him out when he's ill.

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

You do sound rather unsympathetic and hard-hearted. Remember those "for better, for worse" vows you took? This is the "for worse" bit. In spades.

Yep, looks like she does remember her vows.

I believe mental illness can be just as hard on family members as on the person with the illness, in a different kind of way. They are expected to be strong, kind and have limitless patience though when they might be just as much in need of support as their loved one.

I second the earlier suggestion to contact MIND. Mental health professionals have really got a lot better on acknowledging the needs of carers and family members and they won't dismiss your concerns, they'll offer what support they can.

CrazyRed

Subscribing........

life_is_too_much_for_me

Hi,
I have suffered from major depression on and off for the last 17 years and right now am on a huge nose dive into the blackness.
I have done nothing all day apart from sit on the sofa wrapped up in a quilt watching mindless TV, it is more in the background as I spend most of the time on my PC....reading the news and forums.
I have not done any washing up for 2 days, have not hoovered the house for a month.....my house does not look dirty or untidy just dusty. I have kept up with my washing but it is all just piled up on the kitchen table. I do not think it is because I am lazy it is just that I have no inclination to do anything. I do not want to leave the house and do not want to talk to anyone. I hardly eat but that is due to my anxiety which just makes me feel full inside.
It is quite hard to explain what it feels like, but if I won a million on the lottery I really could not care less.
BUT......I do know that maybe in the next few days or weeks or months I will wake up in the morning and actually feel 'normal' again.
I guess depression is maybe hard to diagnose but my doctor (who has been such a help) says he can see it in my face.

CrazyRed

Some interesting points here, on all sides and it is evident that some have first-hand knowledge and experience, others somewhat less so.

From my perspective, not only am I a sufferer (it came back a few weeks ago, which I spotted in time and sought help quickly to minimise it's effects on me) but I also live with someone who is seriously ill and in constant pain - the net effect of which is, of course, depression.

A lot of the above posts I can very much relate to, and I can also see where your husband is on his depression journey.

To a degree, 'tough love' is appropriate. But not from you, he needs to be tough with himself - he's not in a good place at the moment, but constantly thinking about being in that bad place isn't going to help him get out of it - negative emotions feed negative emotions. You can't help him - he has to do this for himself.

I found this site last week : http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/index.html

Please encourage him to help himself and empower himself and get back to how he used to be - he can do it.

Sitting around won't do him any favours - I find gentle exercise helps - even a short walk around the block with the dog - just that change of scenery and some fresh air can help clear the mind. Make use of the resources available on the self-help site and ask the GP to refer him for counselling - the wait's around 6 weeks to initial assessment but there are some charities who may be able to provide counselling sooner.

There are times when I could very easily write almost word-for-word what "Life is too much for me" has written - and I am still slipping down the slope of the blackness - but there's something inside me that's driving me to get up in the morning and go to work to put the grub on our table - but inside I feel like absolute cr*p, am in pieces emotionally and feel totally numb - it's a very hard feeling to explain, but an easy one to empathise with if you're a fellow sufferer.

life_is_too_much_for_me

I find it hard to leave the house, I do not want anyone to see me as I know I look dreadful, the strain of keeping it together shows so much in my face, if someone was forcing me to go out I would refuse.
I am not as bad as I have been before.....and my heart goes out to those that cannot get out of bed....I once spent two weeks in bed with the covers over my head only getting up to use the bathroom.
I am trying to help myself and maybe your husband could look into self help.....I have ordered some books about Emotional Freedom Technique, may sound odd to some but it involves tapping and chanting. I have had counselling and CBT, my GP also tried homeopathy but none have helped.....I am on a cocktail of drugs and when things get really bad I do take valium but only if things are going totally out of control.
I do know that only I can get myself better and when well I see joy in so many things but when in the black hole it is total despair.