Is "tough love" acceptable for depression - slight rant (sorry)

DreamerV

Anyone talking about depression and talking about people getting a grip does not really know that much about depression. There are many people who will be milking the system, but there will be many that are not. Just like there are many genuine benefit claimants, and also a considerable minority who are not so genuine. However in the OP's case, her husband sounds like he wouldn't even go out the house. If he was just milking it, I'd have expected he would be going out to spend time with mates, go down the pub perhaps, carry on with his life, rather than wallowing in bed, watching mind-numbing daytime tv all day, etc. Also most people faking mental illness would be unlikely to actually take the anti-depressants.

j.e.j.

Hootie19 I think you are the best judge of whether or not he's as depressed as he claims to be. I think you did the right thing in making him walk the dog, for HIS sake. His mental health is surely not going to improve by slumping around and watching Jeremy Kyle on a daily basis

Nagging never works. But if he could be convinced (somehow!) of how much better he would feel IF he were to get up and do something, it would help him. Tell him if he wants to be selfish, at least be intelligently selfish!! By living the way he is, he's going to get worse, not better. He is going to need to put the effort in himself, though, - no-one can do it for him.

DylanO, what can I say.. I'd think that in countries such as the ones you mention mild depression may not be such an issue, because people connect more with each other. They live in poverty, yes, but they don't come home and sit in isolation in front of the goggle-box like we in the "developed" world tend to do.

DreamerV

DylanO wrote: »

Exactly - so they cope. Of course people should be allowed to recuperate, but that's not what happens here. They are financially incentivised to remain 'depressed' - that's disgusting.

I don't think that is anything to do with the OP's situation. I get your underlying point. I do believe, and do know of, people who have "faked depression" and have admitted it, to get time off work which was very stressful. The rest of us just coped. I had a spell off work (4 weeks), but then I only had 3 sick days off till then in 3 years. But I fought to get myself back to work, and went on to achieve highly. I don't think everyone is so lucky to be able to do that. And if I had stayed off I would have been on full pay for another 5 months. I can understand how that could incentivise some people to just stay off until they have to go back to work, even if they are better. I think that gripe is much more to do with the benefits system (mainly of the workplace, but perhaps of the government too).

lobbyludd

Obviously everyone's experience of depression is different. I've been moderately and severely depressed many times. No two episodes were the same. I've had ones where I also had high levels of anxiety and couldn't cross strangers on the pavement, I couldn't sleep at all and was manically cleaning because of anxiety about the state of my house, I've had episodes where going to the bathroom was as much as I could physically do in 24 hours. in some episodes I could eat in others I couldn't, in some I would eat whatever waas put in front of me (but could taste essentially nothing).

for me though most had some common themes: I was incapable of making very simple decisions (is it safe to cross the road now? are you hungry?), it is difficult to describe but my brain just does not function in a normal way at all, in part this is because I am constantly being assaulted by my own thoughts and feelings regarding how worthless I am, it's like a storm of knives contantly raining into my mind: a relentless maelstrom of brutal, violent thoughts from myself about me, piercing and damaging me. Whilst depressed I can look like I'm doing nothing, and yet I'm fighting a milisecond by milisecond battle against giving into my own thoughts and the unbearable pain of how disgustingly worthless and actively damaging I am. How my presence in my children's life harms them, how I am the worst sort of evil person, a sociopath, reliving over and over, every thing I have ever done that I am less than proud of, where I could have hurt someone (however minor, or inadvertant), how I do not deserve to be loved, and that it would be better for the world if I ceased to be. (these aren't expressed thoughts to those around me, for "effect", "attention" etc, I completely beleive that every minor grumpiness I've ever exhibited makes me more evil than serial killing child molesters).

I'm not any of these things, and when well, I can see the very real insanity of this.

To the observer though, I'm lying on the sofa, watching mindless TV.

"wallowing" sounds luxorious doesn't it? somehow like a warm comforting cosy blanket, a good old cry and those endorphins flood through making you feel better.

My experience of depression is anything but cosy, it is terryfying, brutal and violent, and there is no respite from it. When I am clinically depressed my endorphins don't work, there is no feeling better, no relief, no brief glimpses of the possibility of joy: none (and my brain is tricked into believing that there never has been either). There is either intense violent self-loathing or a complete void.

and for the poster who said otherwise, people in the third world do indeed lie down and die, or kill themselves.

All of that said, OP: please go and see your gp and get some support for yourself, depression is EXTREMELY hard to live alongside, there will be support groups from others in your situation,and you have every right to be feeling the way you do. Tough love may or may not help him, but it is not your job to heal him (you can't) and if you go under too, then where will you all be? Time to practice some self-care I think? good luck

I respond really well to the SSRIs and usually within a few weeks I'm able to do most things (i'm a single parent of 2 young kids who works full-time), but I also have to let go a lot of stuff (housework is now thankfully relegated to a very non-priority position, and I haven't ironed anything non-crafty in 20-odd years )

DreamerV

j.e.j. wrote: »

DylanO, what can I say.. I'd think that in countries such as the ones you mention mild depression may not be such an issue, because people connect more with each other. They live in poverty, yes, but they don't come home and sit in isolation in front of the goggle-box like we in the "developed" world tend to do.

This is an interesting point. It is very isolating here. I remember a woman from Bangladesh with no tendency for depression who visited her son in Britain for 3 months when her grandchild was born. She over time became very depressed, and complained of feeling lonely even when walking down the street full of people, as there was a lack of interaction. She thought it was a very lonely place. When I'm in developing countries, I always find them richer socially (more community activities, always something going on, etc). I once wrote a piece about how even when I'm there living in relative luxury, when I see the slums below and the people laughing with family and smiling, that they seem richer in happiness.

daisy_darling

lobbyludd wrote: »

Obviously everyone's experience of depression is different. I've been moderately and severely depressed many times. No two episodes were the same. I've had ones where I also had high levels of anxiety and couldn't cross strangers on the pavement, I couldn't sleep at all and was manically cleaning because of anxiety about the state of my house, I've had episodes where going to the bathroom was as much as I could physically do in 24 hours. in some episodes I could eat in others I couldn't, in some I would eat whatever waas put in front of me (but could taste essentially nothing).

for me though most had some common themes: I was incapable of making very simple decisions (is it safe to cross the road now? are you hungry?), it is difficult to describe but my brain just does not function in a normal way at all, in part this is because I am constantly being assaulted by my own thoughts and feelings regarding how worthless I am, it's like a storm of knives contantly raining into my mind: a relentless maelstrom of brutal, violent thoughts from myself about me, piercing and damaging me. Whilst depressed I can look like I'm doing nothing, and yet I'm fighting a milisecond by milisecond battle against giving into my own thoughts and the unbearable pain of how disgustingly worthless and actively damaging I am, how my presence in my children's life harms them, how I am the worst sort of evil person, a sociopath, reliving over and over, every thing I have ever done that I am less than proud of, where I could have hurt someone (however minor, or inadvertant), how I do not deserve to be loved, and that it would be better for the world if I ceased to be. (these aren't expressed thoughts to those around me, for "effect", "attention" etc, I completely beleive that every minor grumpiness I've ever exhibited makes me more evil than serial killing child molesters).

I'm not any of these things, and when well, I can see the very real insanity of this.

to the observer though, I'm lying on the sofa, watching mindless TV.

"wallowing" sounds luxorious doesn't it? somehow like a warm comforting cosy blanket, a good old cry and those endorphins flood through making you feel better. My experience of depression is anything but cosy, it is terryfying, brutal and violant, and there is no respite from it. When I am clinically depressed my endorphins don't work, there is no feeling better, no relief, no brief glimpses of joy: none (and my brain is tricked into believing that there never has been either), there is either intense violent self-loathing or a complete void.

and for the poster who said otherwise, people in the third world do indeed lie down and die, or kill themselves.

All of that said, OP: please go and see your gp and get some support for yourself, depression is EXTREMELY hard to live alongside, there will be support groups from others in your situation,and you have every right to be feeling the way you do. Tough love may or may not help him, but it is not your job to heal him (you can't) and if you go under too, then where will you all be? Time to practice some self-care I think? good luck

I respond really well to the SSRIs and usually within a few weeks I'm able to do most things (i'm a single parent of 2 young kids who works full-time), but I also have to let go a lot of stuff (housework is now thankfully relegated to a very non-priority position, and I haven't ironed anything non-crafty in 20-odd years

Fantastic post !

I really identified with the highlighted part though. After being my hubby's sole support network for the last decade i ended up in a mess with depression too and honestly, nobody was more amazed than me. I've always been the most laid back, happy go lucky soul.

That was sage advice lobbyludd and i hope the OP heeds it for her own sake.

Mojisola

Hootie19 wrote: »

Well there's scope for a whole other thread on that topic! We've been married 26 years now, and with hindsight, we should have parted company years ago. But as he's not a bad person as such (doesn't drink, doesn't gamble, has never hit me or the kids), albeit a bit of a lazy so-and-so, and I've no inclination to be with anyone else, plus the financial implications, sometimes it's just "better the devil you know . . ."

Honestly, if this is the best you can think of to say about him, it's not much of a relationship. While he's ill won't be the best time to make changes but do you really want to spend the rest of your life with him?

ladyandthetramp

Am in a similar situation to the op, and unlucky for me have seen my 2 best friends, mother and her partner go through it in the last few years, and now my partner too, I am very understanding but worried that one day it might happen to me too.

Lobbyludd you mentioned support groups, anywhere I can look for this type of thing?

picnmix

ladyandthetramp wrote: »

Am in a similar situation to the op, and unlucky for me have seen my 2 best friends, mother and her partner go through it in the last few years, and now my partner too, I am very understanding but worried that one day it might happen to me too.

Lobbyludd you mentioned support groups, anywhere I can look for this type of thing?

Contact your local NHS mental health service, they will have lots of information for support for families and be able to point you in the right direction. You could also ask at your GP surgery. x

lobbyludd

Lady and OP, there are some resources mentioned here:

http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/depression/pages/depressionhelpforcarers.aspx

the article makes the very good point that many people living with someone who is depressed may not think of themselves as "carers" but in every sense you are, and it is a very difficult thing to do.

The charity MIND may well be able to point you in the direction of support groups/counsellors (I found an amazing therapist through them), and talk to your GP, they should know of other local resources. Just chatting to your GP about how difficult it can be may help in itself.

Depression runs in my family, so I've seen it from both sides, and have every sympathy with the OP and others in the situation.