Family Issue causing upset

euronorris

Dunroamin wrote: »

So, suppose the honest reason is "I really can't stand you and wish that you weren't married to my BIL" is that really better than a white lie?

IMO, yes. But I appreciate that everyone is different.

I, personally, would rather someone was honest about not liking me so that neither of us had to keep up this pretence of being friends, when we clearly aren't. That way, we would be free to just be civil with each other (at family gatherings and the like), without wondering what the h'll was going on. Did I do this? Was it that? Maybe it's this?

lostinrates

euronorris wrote: »

Not in all cases. I think with family, and close friends it's important to hold onto such relationships. If this is the only thing causing a problem, then simply remove face to face contact until it's easier/no longer a problem.

Personally, I feel it is better to be up front and honest with someone. For too long, I've kept things inside, just expecting other people to know or understand. But how can they, if I don't tell them? Difficult as it can be sometimes, I do think it's best. And, in this situation, it isn't about telling them what you find distasteful. It's simply being honest about finding such things terribly hard to deal with at that time, due to your own situation. ie 'I just wanted to let you know that I am going to remove you from FB. It's nothing personal, and I hope you understand, but I find it terribly hard to see posts about babies/pregnancies at the moment an need to create some distance between myself and those posts. It does NOT mean that you have done anything wrong, or that I don't want to be your friend anymore. I just need to change the parameters of our friendship in the short term. I hope you can understand, and that we can continue our friendship in a different way (via emails and/or phone calls).'.

Personally, I would not be in the slightest bit offended if someone said something like that to me. I would understand completely, and would be really pleased that my friend was able to be so honest with me, and values my friendship enough to not let this come between us permanently.

I hope that helps you to understand my POV better.

Yes i think it does. I agree, that would have been a nicer course of action potentially. (personally i would have found that rather patronising and somewhat self interested, i would rather the contact just drifted, but i think thats what makes us all different, not right or wrong)

Apart from they don't seem to want emails/phone calls or meet ups, so it would not have been true in this case.

However, i can see all sorts of potential for disaster with it. It being shown round to family, being devisive, brought up in future discussions...the recipient being more hurt by it, and being more upset (on the back of what she describes as very distressing recent times) or depending on her character allsorts of reactions.

(for me the facebook thing is a sort of weird one, i am not on it, have no interest in it and think its a little odd tbh!, so not entirely sure of the ins and outs of it. In fact, though its the thing that prompted ops post i think its a symptom not a cause in this case quite likely)





Op, would a meesage like that have helped you feel less bad? Or would have felt as rejecting?

GracieP

euronorris wrote: »

To cut contact completely, and without explanation (sorry, but that explanation should have been given before the defriending, and directly to the OP, not through the BIL IMO), is not just selfish, it's rude and exceptionally hurtful.

It was given. Why is everyone ignoring this? The OP's husband asked his brother about why they weren't coming to see his son and his brother told him it is too hard and would hurt too much. He has told him. There is no ambiguity. The OP knows full well why her in laws have stepped back from her family. The BIL makes and effort to maintain a relationship with his brother in a neutral setting and that is, for now, the only contact the in-laws feel able to make.

Infertility does clearly not infer sainthood but if someone has made it clear that spending time around you causes them pain then you back off. Why in the world would anyone push to spend time around someone when you know that it will hurt them? It might make you sad but it clearly makes them sadder so leave them alone until they can cope better.

And if that isn't the whole story. If the in-laws don't like the OP for some other reason, then that's unfortunate but that's just life. Not everyone will get on. If someone doesn't like you why in the world would you want to force it? Some people don't like me, I just accept that and get on with life. If that person is close to my husband, I just let their relationship be separate from our relationship. It's simple.

The OP wants her husband's family to be like her own family. Well so do I, so do most people who get on well with their own family. But families are different and if your in laws have a way of going about life that seems alien to you then you suck it up and get over it. You don't try to force them to be like your family. Nobody is being nasty to her, they are just not as close and one part of the family has made it clear that they find her presence painful, due to a medical issue. So she just needs to accept that, appreciate her good fortune in her family and the happy end to her fertility problems and wait for this period to pass secure in the knowledge that she isn't the one in pain.

lostinrates

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

I so agree with you and see this all the time.

Things are done without explanation and people get hold of the wrong end of the stick.If only they would be honest with each, it can save a lot of heartache in the end.

Where as i think biting your tongue can often save heartache in these sort of situations, and wich i had known that when forst dealing with in laws!

lostinrates

euronorris wrote: »

IMO, yes. But I appreciate that everyone is different.

I, personally, would rather someone was honest about not liking me so that neither of us had to keep up this pretence of being friends, when we clearly aren't. That way, we would be free to just be civil with each other (at family gatherings and the like), without wondering what the h'll was going on. Did I do this? Was it that? Maybe it's this?

I would never EVer tell someone why i don't lie them, what makes my opinion on them so right! That sort of thing could be horrifically hurtful and unneceassary and very self important imo!

euronorris

GobbledyGook wrote: »

Could be because people don't unexpectedly announce that they are un-paralysed or have grown a new limb? Sounds really glib, but I don't mean it to be.

Part of the problem with infertility is that you never know when someone is going to whack you (metaphorically) in the face with news. Also there is so much detail nowadays about pregnancies. Before you'd maybe see a scan photo and hear about the odd kick, but having a glance at FB now I've got 3 people on there who are pregnant and it's just constant scan pics, ticker things about "Today I'm X weeks and now I've got fingers and toes", 3D scans and just endless stuff.

I appreciate that, but there's an easy fix. Change your FB settings so they don't show on your feed.

And I know how much there is on FB. I have the same problem. Soooo many friends and family members who are either pregnant or just had babies. We aren't experiencing fertility issues. But we have been putting TTC on hold for quite a while now, to ensure our position is more stable, and I want a child so very much. It hurts me too.

I changed the settings for my BIL. Allowed me to maintain the friendship without snapping and cutting all contact (the issues with him are not fertility related). It also meant I didn't cause unnecessary arguments by defriending him. It's not that I don't want to be his friend, after all, I just cannot put up with his 'me, me, me' statuses anymore.

Dunroamin

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

Then why have her as a friend in the first place? If they did not like her they should never have added her. She cannot have done anything to upset them and change their mind as she never sees them!!!!!!!!!!

And they might just as well have said that as suddenly delete her from their facebook!!

That's just ridiculous! You can't possibly equate telling someone to their face that you can't stand them as pushing a button on a computer!

POPPYOSCAR

lostinrates wrote: »

Where as i think biting your tongue can often save heartache in these sort of situations, and wich i had known that when forst dealing with in laws!

Well that is where we differ.

I never used to be so upfront and say what I thought but I do now.I do not do it in temper or in an attacking way, I just let people know how I feel about it and it works for me.

I get really fed up with people who moan like hell to me about other people when they should be talking to the person directly and sorting it out with them .Most of the time it arises through mis-understanding of the others actions.

Nicki

euronorris wrote: »

Not in all cases. I think with family, and close friends it's important to hold onto such relationships. If this is the only thing causing a problem, then simply remove face to face contact until it's easier/no longer a problem.

Personally, I feel it is better to be up front and honest with someone. For too long, I've kept things inside, just expecting other people to know or understand. But how can they, if I don't tell them? Difficult as it can be sometimes, I do think it's best. And, in this situation, it isn't about telling them what you find distasteful. It's simply being honest about finding such things terribly hard to deal with at that time, due to your own situation. ie 'I just wanted to let you know that I am going to remove you from FB. It's nothing personal, and I hope you understand, but I find it terribly hard to see posts about babies/pregnancies at the moment an need to create some distance between myself and those posts. It does NOT mean that you have done anything wrong, or that I don't want to be your friend anymore. I just need to change the parameters of our friendship in the short term. I hope you can understand, and that we can continue our friendship in a different way (via emails and/or phone calls).'.

Personally, I would not be in the slightest bit offended if someone said something like that to me. I would understand completely, and would be really pleased that my friend was able to be so honest with me, and values my friendship enough to not let this come between us permanently.

I hope that helps you to understand my POV better.

That's fine if you are feeling calm and rational and able to consider all angles in the situation. But maybe less easy if you are feeling raw, hysterical, possibly suicidal and only just able to cope with things. In those circumstances, maybe knowing that your OH had had a conversation with his brother would feel like enough to you?

It is interesting that this situation means that one of two people is going to be hurt, either OP if contact is stopped, or the SIL if it is maintained, yet some people feel that OP has a right not to be hurt, and that it is OK for the SIL to be so. The urge to have children of your own is in most cases an instinctive one, and inability to do so causes deep trauma. I'm not aware there is a similar instinctive urge to have a relationship with the brother of your partner and his wife. I would imagine for example that even if this defriending hadn't happened, if OP ever separated from her husband, she would not give the BIL and SIL a second thought and would probably never see them again without making an effort to have one last meeting to say goodbye.

No one is saying it is OP's fault that her child and pregnancy cause the SIL pain, and she isn't necessarily flaunting it, but nor does she necessarily understand what the SIL is going through. She may have had difficulty conceiving in the past, but the fact is she now has a child and has managed to conceive another within a very short period after the birth of the first. So she was never "infertile" though she may have had reduced fertility for a while. She has no idea what the SIL's position is. They may have been told they are categorically infertile with no chance of ever conceiving either naturally or via assisted means - if the BIL's sperm count is non existant or the SIL has had a premature menopause for example. In which case they are grieving the loss of the family they may never have. They might not be avoiding all children, but having to confront the grandchildren they are unable to give BIL's parents might be too much for them until they get through and over this loss.

OP says she wants to be supportive, and I for one can't see why in that case she can't just give them time to come round in their own time. Maybe even drop THEM a note or email to say that she knows they are in a difficult place at the moment and quite understands why they are keeping their distance but that she misses them and will always be there for them when they are ready to get back into contact?

elvis86

Dunroamin wrote: »

Just to nit pick - she isn't the OP's SIL, she's the wife of her BIL which isn't the same thing.

Really? I can't imagine how else I would describe my OH's brother's wife?

Putting aside the OP's situation for a moment, I just don't know how you can call yourself a friend to someone, if you're going to drop them like a hot potato the moment they get pregnant, if that happens to be something that you're struggling with?

If you're single and a friend gets engaged, is it reasonable of you to cut them out of your life until the wedding is over? Or worse, until they file for divorce?! Are friendships really this disposable now? Is it widely accepted that you can dip in and out as you please and cut out your friends periodically when it suits you?

To me, that's not friendship. Friendship is being there for one another no matter what. Whilst I can appreciate that someone with fertility issues may find the fact that their friend has managed to have children difficult, I would be very sad if someone I considered to be a friend completely cut me out of their life like this and for that reason. I would find that callousness difficult to accept and forgive, and I can't guarantee that they'd be welcomed back when they managed to have a child and were "willing" to be friends with me again.

As someone else said, some people struggling to conceive seem to find it so all-consuming that they become very self-centred. What if the friend you've temporarily ditched struggles with motherhood and could do with your support? What if her child gets ill? Does infertility give you exclusive rights to finding life difficult? Should she expect and accept to do without your friendship, no matter how much she might need it?

I can't believe that having a child really precludes someone from being supportive of someone who is struggling to conceive? I'd like to think that I would be capable of doing both, should I ever find myself in that situation.

It's not going to be straightforward for me to have kids. Some of my friends may well achieve it before me, despite them showing little interest at the moment whilst I become increasingly broody. But I like to think that they will be my supporters and morale-boosters when the time comes, regardless of whether they have kids themselves. I certainly don't anticipate that I will come to regard them as my mortal enemies.