Having problems with DD2 now :(

Nicki

I disagree that the child's bedtime is outrageously early. I have a boy in Year 7 and his bedtime is 8.15 on a weeknight (but he can read after he goes to bed for as long as he likes) and 9pm on a weekend. Most of my friends who have Year 7 children have similar bedtimes for their children.

I also have a child with severe special needs and behavioural issues (younger than my DS) and to be honest my DH and I need a couple of hours adult time in the evening to unwind and reconnect. We also get no respite care, and never have done. OP has already said the relationship with her DH is strained. I would hazard a guess that if her DD1 was allowed to stay up to 9 on a weekday and 10 at a weekend, that OP's relationship with her DH would be over, because they would never have any time to discuss the strains that caring for both children bring, or privacy to discuss any other issues which you don't necessarily want to share with your children, be these financial, employment or health.

Lunar_Eclipse

I'm a fan of early bed times, but I know 8pm is unusual (not outrageously early) for a child in Y7, where we live. Also, despite the fact she is allowed to read, I bet she considers 8pm her bedtime.

What I would change, in this scenario, is DD2's bedtime. I think most children of 5 go to bed around 6.30/7, which might help DD1 feel that she is being treated more fairly. I would probably opt for 7 and 8.30pm personally.

Theoretically, does a child of 5 only need 30 minutes more sleep than a child of 11/12? Typically the answer would be no, and could vary by as much as 2 hours.

Lunar_Eclipse

Nicki wrote: »

have a boy in Year 7 and his bedtime is 8.15 on a weeknight (but he can read after he goes to bed for as long as he likes) and 9pm on a weekend.

Does he turn the light out himself, so you feel like your parenting tasks are complete by 8.15pm and you are off duty, or do you say goodnight later?

I really need some time to myself after the children are tucked up and asleep (which I know is running out...)

peachyprice

Nicki wrote: »

I disagree that the child's bedtime is outrageously early. I have a boy in Year 7 and his bedtime is 8.15 on a weeknight (but he can read after he goes to bed for as long as he likes) and 9pm on a weekend. Most of my friends who have Year 7 children have similar bedtimes for their children.

While not outrageously so, I do think 8pm is unusually early for yr 7 children, your area is obviously the exception and your child thrives well on it.

BUT, when you have a child that is disruptive to her younger sibling's bedtime routine and is so obviously screaming out for positive attention from her mum, is sending her to her room for an hour to stew really the best move?

OP isn't getting the quality time with her OH because she's having to spend it placating the child who doesn't want to go to bed at almost the same time as her 5yo sister. Instead of getting quality time from say 9pm, she's spending the entire evening and into the night battling with her eldest child. I would forego an extra hour of QT with OH to not turn the whole night into a battle zone.

moiramay

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

I'm a fan of early bed times, but I know 8pm is unusual (not outrageously early) for a child in Y7, where we live. Also, despite the fact she is allowed to read, I bet she considers 8pm her bedtime.

What I would change, in this scenario, is DD2's bedtime. I think most children of 5 go to bed around 6.30/7, which might help DD1 feel that she is being treated more fairly. I would probably opt for 7 and 8.30pm personally.

Theoretically, does a child of 5 only need 30 minutes more sleep than a child of 11/12? Typically the answer would be no, and could vary by as much as 2 hours.

8pm is outrageously early for a child aged between 11-12 years end of.

Nicki

moiramay wrote: »

8pm is outrageously early for a child aged between 11-12 years end of.

Perhaps it depends on what time the rest of the family goes to bed (and gets up) then. I am often in bed by 10pm, being exhausted looking after 3 active kids all day, and up at 7 to get them all off and out for school. So for us it makes sense for our Year 7 child to be in bed by 8.15, so that we can have a couple of hours time to ourselves. If you don't go to bed until midnight say, then its not such a big deal if your 11 year old is around until 9.30/10pm.

I know people whose babies are up until 8 or 9pm at night, so that dad can spend some quality time with them after work. Mine have always been in bed by 6.30/7.00pm, as that is what works best for us. It doesn't mean that one approach is right or wrong, or that one baby is put to bed outrageously early or outrageously late, just different parenting styles, and no "end of" about it.

anguk

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Finances permitting, I'd go on holiday for a week. Right now, today or tomorrow. I wouldn't call it a holiday though. And I'm talking a cottage by the beach or in the country, not a 4* hotel overseas. Just getting away. Either you, your husband (If he's 100% committed) and DD1 or all 4 of you if you can't find someone to look after DD2. But I'd try really hard to leave DD2 behind - but NOT with your husband unless he is walking out of the marriage.

I would agree that getting away for a little while may be beneficial but I think it would be wrong and unfair to leave DD2 behind. This would just show DD1 that bad behaviour is rewarded with a holiday on her own without her sister, with full undivided attention from her parents.

Also the OP has said she's starting to have problems with DD2, in my opinion much of this is down to how she sees DD1 behave and the effect it's having on the whole family. What is it teaching DD2 if the family go away without her, if she misbehaves you get a holiday? I know you say not to call it a holiday, it's just getting away, but to a 5 and 12 year old it's a holiday.

I do agree with others that 8pm is too early to send a 12 year old to bed (even with lights out at 9pm), it's not achieving anything, DD2 isn't tired and it's just causing more problems. I would say bed at 9pm with lights out at 9.30-10pm would be much more appropriate for a 12 year old.

Caroline_a

Maybe you could offer the slightly later bedtime as a reward for good behaviour? Coupled with some 1:1 'mum and daughter' time? Easy for me to say I know, but how about finding something that you are both interested in and spending some time doing/talking about it?

Sorry if you've tried it all before, but maybe worth a go?

the_cat

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

1) I wouldn't think about putting either of my children into care. (Over my dead body.)
.

The problem is that if the situation has escalated to such an extent that the DD is now threatening her mother with a knife, then that is exactly what could happen

It would break my heart to do so, but if that was the only conceivable way I could get the help we needed then yes, for my daughter's sake, then care would have to at least be considered (who knows, the threat may be enough to jolt social services into actually helping)

The OP has tried everything in her power to change the situation. I'm not saying she has handled things perfectly imo, but she has done her best and sadly that has not been good enough to turn things around.

Should they all just carry on until someone is stabbed? Is it fair to let DD1 destroy her life by doing something like that because she is so out of control? For DD2 and her parents to be at risk? NO!!

daska

Oh what a nightmare!

First thing I'd say, as a rebuttal to all those who haven't experienced the joys of a child who has problems and are making judgemental accusations from their glass houses, is that not all behaviour is the result of parenting. DS2 was expelled from 3 nurseries/pre-schools due to his behaviour but EVERYONE who knows him states that he isn't naughty. It just isn't the case that parents are responsible for everything!

I firmly believe that ALL children deserve a chance, not just the ones that demand most attention. And if one child is causing such a problem that other children are losing out then whatever it is that's being done obviously isn't the solution. No, I'm not advocating putting a child into care without thought for the consequences, it's well known that the care system has many negative aspects but, if you have a chance of saving one child or none then some heartfelt consideration needs to go into the decision of what is best overall!

As someone who had to pay to go privately in order to get permission to get onto the NHS waiting lists, I would advocate throwing some money at this if you have some. Not at her, because it sounds to me that, if she needs anything from you, it's time and cuddles (though I'm not convinced about that), but at a professional who can start the process of getting a diagnosis. Toddlers can be a handful, but they're rarely a nightmare if they have sufficient boundaries, and from what you say about DD2 it sounds as if she was fine until recently - which rather indicates that you have the ability to put boundaries in place, even if that ability has only come from having to deal with DD1.

I would suggest sticking with whatever tactics you've agreed with the professionals, not chopping and changing, consistency is usually a key strategy with children. But keep a diary and, if you can, record her behaviour so that you have video evidence.

Good luck hun, ((((HUGS))))