Having problems with DD2 now :(

jess1974

I'm afraid i would also think long and hard about putting her into care, i just could'nt cope with living like that...

the_cat

I think your daughter needs professional help over and above what she gets now. It would seem that the only way for you to get Social Services to provide it is to force their hand. For this reason I think putting her into care where they have to deal with the situation and not keep fobbing you off is the only answer

patchwork_cat

There are 2 mums on this board with 2 girls of very similar ages with similar problems. I think quite a few posters are remembering threads about the other DD and attributing them to Daryld's DD. However the other poster has been on and and her DD is being assessed for Pathological Avoidance Disorder (PDA) at a centre in Nottingham, who assess for a number of conditions.

I know that the other poster has recommended that DarylD also look into this and I think if you approach the same centre that would be an very good idea they do take self referral so a phone call would IMO be a good idea. http://www.norsaca.org.uk/child_enc.htm. Give them a ring it can't do any harm. I note that you are in Leicester, so the Nottingham centre is only 3/4 hr away from you.

peachyprice

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but when you post things like this it does bring your parenting skills into question. I agree, your daughters reactions are not 'normal' but the whole situation could have been avoided last night by your actions.

Why, at the age of 12, is she going to bed at 8pm, just half an hour after her 5yo sister? You know you have a restless child but your sending her to bed when she won't even be tired, you're giving her the time to work herself up and giving her the opportunity to annoy her sister, who then can't get to sleep because DD1 is winding her up. By sending her to her room so early you're giving her the message that you just want her out of the way. Why does she have to go to bed so early? Would it be so awful to let her stay down stairs until 8.45 and spend some time with her without her sister being around?

So she has a paddy because she's been sent to bed when she's not tired. She comes downstairs and asks for a bowl of porridge, which I see as her offering an olive branch, but you refuse. Would it have been so awful to have let her have another 5 minutes to have a bowl of porridge and time to wind down and a chat with you? It's not as if you got her to go to bed is it? By refusing a simple request you've made the situation worse and she's ended up going to bed even later than if you'd have let her have a bowl of porridge, calmed down and gone to bed happy.

People have said to you so many times 'pick your battles' but you seem to not be able to do that.

I hope you can get some resipte care because BOTH of you need it. There's a cycle that needs to be broken and it's not going to happen while she's in your care.

teabag29

Hi again chick, I know i've mentioned it before but this really does sound pda, perhaps mention this to camhs when you see them. Pda children aren't able to cope with demands like most children, even the smallest of demands can send them off on one, usually changing the subject so you'll forget what they ask of you or kicking off. With pda children they will not respond to normal methods of parenting, infact alot of normal methods will make them even more anxious. There are some great videos on youtube which help you to see life from their perspective and advice on how to manage their behaviour, alot of which is in the way you direct the command e.g. instead of 'can you pick up your crisp packet please' try 'I wonder who can pick up that crisp packet and get it to the bin first'. There is a great forum on this disorder and the ladies on there give great advice and have children much like your dd, http://ccgi.pdacontact.org.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

teabag29

patchwork_cat wrote: »

There are 2 mums on this board with 2 girls of very similar ages with similar problems. I think quite a few posters are remembering threads about the other DD and attributing them to Daryld's DD. However the other poster has been on and and her DD is being assessed for Pathological Avoidance Disorder (PDA) at a centre in Nottingham, who assess for a number of conditions.

I know that the other poster has recommended that DarylD also look into this and I think if you approach the same centre that would be an very good idea they do take self referral so a phone call would IMO be a good idea. http://www.norsaca.org.uk/child_enc.htm. Give them a ring it can't do any harm.

Yes thats me chick, I can relate to everything op is saying as its as though she is describing my dd.

For those who say put her into care, I am shocked that people respond this way. Tell me this, if it were your daughter who you loved would you just give up on her because she had problems? the girl needs her mum now more than ever, you dont become a mum to give up when things get tough.

I can only assume the people who have suggested putting her into care have a deluded idea of what the care system is like...... she will not suddenly get all the help she needs, it will more than likely damage the girl even further by being pushed from here to there and losing her stability. How many children who've been put into care (especially as a teenager) do you know that come out saying 'I had a great time, it changed my life and gave me all the help I need'???? no, most that come out of the care system end up worse off. Funding resources are stretched to the max.

Op is doing all she can health wise and she has the right ppl involved. Its not an easy situation but I think it would be much more beneficial to give her a bit of support than tell her to put her child in care or criticise her parenting.

teabag29

peachyprice wrote: »

Why, at the age of 12, is she going to bed at 8pm, just half an hour after her 5yo sister?

I hope you can get some resipte care because BOTH of you need it. There's a cycle that needs to be broken and it's not going to happen while she's in your care.

I see what you're saying here but being in a very similar position to the op I can sympathise. The only time she will have for herself is at the end of the day and after putting up with all the challenging behaviour you are often left shattered yourself by 8pm. She did not say she goes to sleep at 8pm, she is allowed tv for an hour, that hour gives the op and her partner some much needed time together.

I agree you need respite as do I but as we both know we're fighting a losing battle. Funding has been cut dramatically in our area. Perhaps we could meet up op and let our girls meet, would be interesting to see how they react with eachother seen as they are so alike. Maybe they will get on and I could help you out. If they like eachother perhaps we could sort something out for over the easter holidays. My dd doesnt get on with alot of kids her own age largely because of her dominance but also other kids take the mick out of her as she's behind but she really does long to have a friend her own age, perhaps we could get them together and it may well give them both something positive too. Think about it and let me know, I'm quite happy to let your dd sleep over occasionally in the holidays/weekends etc once they get to know eachother. This would give you a much needed break and time with your hubby and give my dd a friend (as you know im home educating after easter so really worried about her not having any friends).

I'll leave it with you. As always here if you need to talk, I know what you're going through x

Willow_K

For those who say put her into care, I am shocked that people respond this way. Tell me this, if it were your daughter who you loved would you just give up on her because she had problems? the girl needs her mum now more than ever, you dont become a mum to give up when things get tough.

Yes, if it were my daughter I would consider putting her into foster care - initially on a short term basis.

It would not be 'giving up' because from the sounds of it (and I have only read this thread, not any others) she has been trying to resolve this situation for years.

She has to consider the longterm affect this is having on her youngest daughter - it is not fair on her to keep trudging down the well worn path of not getting anywhere very fast with the eldest daughter while her behaviour continues to deteriorate.

DD1 grabbed a knife - what if DD2 had been in the room at the time and she had lunged with it? Is she supposed to carry on until someone gets seriously hurt? Is DD2 expected to grow up in a house with constant shouting, and trashed furniture where she is not getting enough sleep because her sister is keeping her awake at night (which incidently could very well be one of the reasons for the deterioration in DD2's behaviour - overtiredness has massive impacts in 5 year olds).

Or does the OP have to make the decision to give up on her marriage and DD2 to move out with DD1 and continue to live the hell day in day out?

It sounds like the whole family could do with some respite from the situation including DD1. If social services won't do anything voluntarily then yes, absolutely, the OP should seriously consider voluntary foster care.

Have a read of this article OP - its only a BBC magazine piece but a starting point to consider. You have done so much for your daughter, but you need to consider DD2 and yourself as well.

Good Luck x

Lunar_Eclipse

I've just caught up with this thread. I'm quite distressed by what I've read in various posts and would like to give my thoughts as to what I would do, in this situation, as it has evolved. Obviously I am doing my best to imagine what it's like, I'm the first to admit I'm not living it.

1) I wouldn't think about putting either of my children into care. (Over my dead body.)

2) I'd have a heart to heart with the husband. In my opinion, he needs to either get on board fast, or leave. He's really not helping matters. I would ask him to stop mentioning anyone moving out from this moment forward, although you acknowledge that he can move out (alone) if he wishes. He is an adult with freewill. A minor doesn't have that freedom. I am utterly disgusted by what he has (repeatedly) said about your eldest daughter. Words truly fail me. I would make it absolutely clear to him that your children are your responsibility, a blessed duty that you will carry to your grave.

3) I would focus on breaking the cycle with DD1 immediately. There are several issues that need to be addressed. Some are medical and I won't comment on those. Some are emotional (she needs to know that you love her and will never give up on her NO MATTER WHAT), some are parental (I'd suggest a course, some reading and a plan as to the style you're going to use, pocket money etc) and some are behavioural. New guidelines are required here.

Finances permitting, I'd go on holiday for a week. Right now, today or tomorrow. I wouldn't call it a holiday though. And I'm talking a cottage by the beach or in the country, not a 4* hotel overseas. Just getting away. Either you, your husband (If he's 100% committed) and DD1 or all 4 of you if you can't find someone to look after DD2. But I'd try really hard to leave DD2 behind - but NOT with your husband unless he is walking out of the marriage.

I would be doing lots of listening to her, some talking, wiping the slate clean (all is forgiven and nothing behavioural to be dragged up from the past ever again unless needed with doctors), having fun and discussing how you all want to your home to be when you return.

I'd come up with new systems for pocket money, chores etc. I also think she is being treated like a young child which could be parenting, it could be because she is very immature, or it could be a contributory factor to her outbursts. Her bedtime is early, especially compared to your youngest, for starters. The situation last night was completely unavoidable. I know things are very difficult, but I urge you to think things through. My 11 year old struggles to be in bed before 8.30/9, sometimes as late as 10 during the week, simply through time. By the time she's had after school activities, dinner, homework and relaxation or shower if she's very lucky, it's getting late. She doesn't stay up late at the weekend (they quite happily go along with bedtime) BUT this appears to be the exception which I think you should know. All the other kids I know in Y7 stay up until at least 10pm, or as late as they want, on Fridays and Saturdays. (This is true, not what my daughters are telling me in order to change things in our home. I think late nights are unnecessary - but inevitable at some point - so your daughter could be feeling really hard done by if her peers are staying up late.)

A couple of other things I'd think carefully about are diet and exercise. Does she do something active most days of the week? PE, a sports club, an active after school activity? This helps in several ways. Is she getting enough fresh air? Is she eating 5 portions of fruit & veg a day in addition to healthy carbohydrates and protein?

Do you talk to her every day about general things: how was your day, what are you learning in school, do you need help with your homework, what do you fancy for dinner etc?

I would also discuss the possibility of hormone imbalance with your GP. And consider a supplement for PMT.

Lunar_Eclipse

peachyprice wrote: »

the whole situation could have been avoided last night by your actions.

Why, at the age of 12, is she going to bed at 8pm, just half an hour after her 5yo sister?

People have said to you so many times 'pick your battles' but you seem to not be able to do that.QUOTE]



I don't want to come across as judgmental and harsh, because I'm sure you could only be telling half the story, but I really agree with all these points.

If you're struggling to get professional help with DD1, do you have the strength to start over via self help? Can you dig deep and start afresh from the inside out? It would be extremely helpful, but not compulsory, for you to have someone else to help you, ideally your husband.