So - your 8 year old is having a tantrum... do you?

Nicki

minimoneysaver wrote: »

This thread has gone silly, the way all other threads concerning children's behaviour in public do. Disability or not, it costs nothing for a parent to say sorry if someone is hurt or inconvenienced by a child's behaviour. I've worked with children in all age groups with ADHD, autism etc. Nothing makes bad behaviour acceptable. Almost all children can learn about acceptable public behaviour. Of course it doesn't mean that sometimes blips happen, but that is up to the adult in charge to take charge of the situation and make right when possible. Keeping in mind that sometimes trying to control the child and maintain safety takes paramount importance...even over other people in the vicinity.

Has ANYONE on the thread said that the woman should not have apologised, or that she was right to become abusive with the OP?

Some posters have said that it must have been the woman's fault that her child behaved in the way she did, because had their child behaved that way, they would have taken them home immediately. But the woman in the OP was in fact trying to take her child home, but the child was refusing to go, which suggests that although the woman was trying to parent in the same way as the parents of the well behaved children, the child was reacting differently, and in a way which IMO and the opinion of some others, is unusual for an 8 year old with no other issues in the mix.

As for the assertion that nothing makes bad behaviour acceptable, that rather depends on what you understand autism/ADHD/etc to be, doesn't it? I understand it to be a disability which impacts on how a child understands (or doesn't understand) social expectations, and how they control their emotions. I expect my child with autism to behave as well as she is capable of doing, however I accept that this is not the same standard of behaviour as a 10 year old without autism because she does not have the same level of understanding of a child of that age. I have also seen the MRI and EEGs which show which bits of her brain are not working properly, and had it explained to me what areas of functioning those bits of the brain control, and on the basis of this I believe that she very genuinely has an extreme difficulty in those areas. There are degrees of autism and ADHD and all other kinds of disability, so I accept that some children with these conditions can be held to a higher standard, and some may need even greater concessions, but I do believe with all my heart and soul that having serious damage to your brain does make it acceptable to behave differently, and not always up to the same standards as someone who does not have this damage, and that it is up to the parent or carer to minimise the impact that the behaviours have on others, but not to hide themselves away for the rest of their lives to spare the feelings of the general public. In my case, my child was born when I was 31 and diagnosed when I was 33, and at that point I was told that her degree of disability was such that she would never live independently. I refuse to accept that receiving this diagnosis means that I should put myself and my other children in total seclusion until the day I die (hopefully for at least 50 years from her diagnosis) and so I do take my child to restaurants, on holiday and try to give her as normal an upbringing as any other child, and this will continue when she is an adult.

Nicki

moomoomama27 wrote: »

I work in a school, and believe me there are alot of children with no disability that throw temper tantrums at that age and above! It's actually alot more common that one thinks.

OK - I bow to that superior experience. My DS obviously went to a very very nice school, because I haven't come across behaviour of this kind from kids of that age, other than those with a confirmed diagnosis of some kind, but if you tell me its common, then I obviously picked his school well

Beautifulgorgeous

My six year old looked like a child of eight and others expected a higher standard of behaviour than he was capable of. My friend had a six year old who looked like he was four and society was far less judgemental of his behaviour. There was only 5 weeks difference in their birth dates.

moomoomama27

Nicki wrote: »

OK - I bow to that superior experience. My DS obviously went to a very very nice school, because I haven't come across behaviour of this kind from kids of that age, other than those with a confirmed diagnosis of some kind, but if you tell me its common, then I obviously picked his school well

There really is no need to be snippy. I think it's easy as a parent to think the school is wonderful, but until you've seen the daily challenges then I think it's unfair to judge. The school presents itself to parents in the best possible way, it was an eye openeer working in the day to day IYKWIM.

I ws offering my opinion based on my experiences, and I have worked in several schools, and have come across a proportion of challenging behaviours from children who should be old enough to cope without tantrums ( no disability involved). I was putting my opinion across, not being superior, infact, I suggest possbly you should look at what you typed, as you come across just that, by your sweeping insinuations!

masterlumps

Padz wrote: »

I'm 100% sure that the child was not autistic. I've been a teacher for more years than I care to admit and I can usually tell. Plus it was a girl and autism is less common in girls. Child was wearing a sweatshirt from local Junior school.

i am truley glad you are not my childs teacher

nice that you can be 100% sure a child is not on the autistic spectrum, i am astonished you can tell at a glance as it took upwards of 20 professionals over 4 years to diagnose my son as having aspergers syndrome

Nicki

Sorry, I wasn't intending to be snippy. I genuinely haven't seen behaviour like that at DS's mainstream primary school from children of the age under discussion, and I was the governor with responsibility for SEN there for 7 years, so was consulted about all the support being put in place for children with behavioural challenges and their financial ramifications. Serious bad behaviour of the kind you describe was incredibly rare, and the school always knew why it was happening. If you tell me that it is very common, then I will believe you, but it wasn't common in my experience at my son's school is the only point I was making.

moomoomama27

Nicki wrote: »

Sorry, I wasn't intending to be snippy. I genuinely haven't seen behaviour like that at DS's mainstream primary school from children of the age under discussion, and I was the governor with responsibility for SEN there for 7 years, so was consulted about all the support being put in place for children with behavioural challenges and their financial ramifications. Serious bad behaviour of the kind you describe was incredibly rare, and the school always knew why it was happening. If you tell me that it is very common, then I will believe you, but it wasn't common in my experience at my son's school is the only point I was making.

I never did either, when I worked in a school when my youngest was there, it was quite rare!

I must say its only really been in the past 18-24 months or so that I've seen a real increase in behavioural 'issues' in children with no disability. I've worked in 3 school over this time and it's only getting worse The current school I'm in (not my childrens school), is struggling with this. The majority of problems are from children of 8+, temper and agression being the most prevalant problems.

Not surprising when you witness some parenting, and the language etc used towards the children.

make_me_wise

moomoomama27 wrote: »

I work in a school, and believe me there are alot of children with no disability that throw temper tantrums at that age and above! It's actually alot more common that one thinks.

Ofrcourse on the flip side there's every possiblitly that there could have been a disability, but I don't think one should assume that, unless told. Unfortunatley there are ALOT of badly behaved children, with rubbishy parents around, and it's becoming more and more cmmonplace to see it, than ever before. Which is sad.

I agree with you. Sadly there are plenty of children 8 and older whose manners and general behaviour are awful and they have no problems such as autism etc whatsoever. Parents evenings are always a complete eye opener, because when you meet the parents you can see exactly where its all learnt from.

I actually think it is disrespectful to children who do suffer with autism, aspergers etc for people to wonder if every child who behaves really badly must be a sufferer.

mishkanorman

We dont know for sure that the child is 8 though do we ? as someone further up said I have an 8 year old who is as tall as my friends 5 year old, thats a massive difference in maturity levels.

meer53

Beautifulgorgeous wrote: »

My six year old looked like a child of eight and others expected a higher standard of behaviour than he was capable of. My friend had a six year old who looked like he was four and society was far less judgemental of his behaviour. There was only 5 weeks difference in their birth dates.

I agree with this post. How can you be sure the child was 8 ? My son has a friend who was about a foot taller than the rest of the kids in his class and looked a good 2-3 years older than the rest. Same for my 11 year old daughter, she was premature so has always been tiny, but one of her friends looks as though she should be out at work ! If i had to guess her age, i'd say she was 15 or 16. At the side of her, my daughter looks about 6 !