Should you compromise?

Lovelyjoolz

Brighton_belle wrote: »

It is invariably more complex than this. Most of the women on that thread have effectively proposed and explained how much marriage means to them, but the OH's procratinate and say, 'all in good time', 'I'm not ready yet' etc. So the women have to wait for the man to be ready, and the way he tends to show that, is by 'proposing'.

Well, that is s sh!tty thing to do - propose and then resist committing to a date.

It does make you wonder though, if the proposal coomes only because the guy was nagged into it, rather than a adult conversation whereby couples "...asking someone you want to spend your life with to consider your desires and concerns when thinking about their own..." as Funnymoney so beautifully put it.

There's a big difference in being coerced into something or "proposing just to shut them up" and actually making a joint decision to commit to each other.

jtr2803

Lovelyjoolz wrote: »

You are funny! It's not being 'pushy or demanding' to discuss what you want out of life in an adult manner, rather than sitting back hoping some bloke will take pity on you and pop the question. Really, I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life.

I have no idea why you seem to think it hasn't been discussed? Nowhere in this thread has anyone said they were just sitting back and waiting without having talked about it. So you both agree you want to get married but the man sees as it as being in the future, are you suggesting we ask them to set a date immediately and if they don't feel they can then it's game over?

If we were talking about something unimportant like a gift you were hoping for, that's one thing. But marriage and children? Really? Those are more fundamental life choices that deserve proper consideration and should be discussed like grown-ups.

Which is probably why some men want to wait before they make such fundamental life choices.

I bet you'd argue til you were blue in the face over next years holiday destination, but you be an adult and discuss when you'll get married? You must see how foolish that is?

No, I choose the holiday destinations actually.

OP - 2012 is a leap year. Propose to him yourself.

January20 wrote: »

I'm going to probably upset you here but why should these men want to be married? They get everything from a married relationship ie sex, a woman to cook for them, look after them, sometimes even children. they can have all that whilst still saying there are not ready to commit. They can have all that and the freedom to walk any time they want. Why would they hurry to get married?

You haven't upset me at all, I actually completely agree with you and it's something that has dicussed between a number of us who already live with their partners.

Although meritaten was indeed a little harsh in how her post was worded, I don't think she is completely wrong. I got the same feeling from reading the OP's first post. I also got the feeling the OP is a woman who very much bases her life decisions on what her partner wants to do. (she said he likes to make his own mind up about things).

I think the problem is that you can't really compromise in this situation which is why I suggested that the OP make her own deadline. It would be very different if the OP's partner had agreed to marry her next year and kept changing his mind but he hasn't. It seems he sees it in the future but you can't force someone to make a decision and trying to work out how long that could be is like trying to guess the length of a piece of string.

I completely agree that 3/4 years when you are in your thirties should be long enough to know if you are going to make a serious commitment but just because I think that doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way. Men have posted on the *other* thread and said there is no way they would propose before 5 years even though they are very much in love as they think that's the minimum amount of time to know someone well enough. This is what I meant about a differing of time frames.

It's a very hard question to answer and I don't think anyone else can really assess the relationship and situation, we all have our own expectations and ideals so it's trying to work around that in a mature way that is key.

scheming_gypsy

Lovelyjoolz wrote: »

There's a big difference in being coerced into something or "proposing just to shut them up" and actually making a joint decision to commit to each other.

You missed a bit... If I ever decide I want to get married then the proposal will be something she'll remember. I'm talking a weekend away in Iceland / that area when the Northern Lights would be expected to make an appearance, and do it then.
There wouldn't be any of this naff Valentines / Christmas day or New Years Eve etc and it definitely wouldn't happen after a joint decision. If she constantly asked and mentioned it then it'd just get put off for longer

Brighton_belle

Lovelyjoolz wrote: »

Well, that is s sh!tty thing to do - propose and then resist committing to a date.
You misunderstood this bit - I meant the women had proposed and the men had said 'not yet'. I couldn't agree more about people (either sex) who propose and then refuse to set a date - I find long engagements bizarre, unless both parties are happy, like podperson above.
It does make you wonder though, if the proposal coomes only because the guy was nagged into it, rather than a adult conversation whereby couples "...asking someone you want to spend your life with to consider your desires and concerns when thinking about their own..." as Funnymoney so beautifully put it.

There's a big difference in being coerced into something or "proposing just to shut them up" and actually making a joint decision to commit to each other.

And this isn't what I meant - the women are standing back so the men aren't 'nagged into it' - that is the basis of that whole thread really - the women expressing what they want in a calm adult manner, but then also respecting their partners enough to not push or nag someone into it, because marriage on such a basis is not of value to them. Some men find the committment of marriage really scary, then when they finally do it, love it.

rinabean

Three years is more than long enough to know if you want to marry and have children. I would find it more weird if you had been with someone for that long and didn't know them well enough to decide this, but of course all relationships are different and there could be a perfectly understandable reason for it.

Why are all these women waiting for proposals? Why are they incapable of proposing themselves? Of course these boyfriends can be wishy-washy with their answers if you talk about how one day in the future you'd kinda sorta like to maybe marry him - it's a wishy-washy proposal. Get down on one knee and ask him yourself. If he says yes, congratulations! If he says no, you decide if it's worth waiting for him to change his mind or you go and find someone else who won't - like you would expect a man to. Sitting around doing nothing but manipulating men (and whining when it doesn't work) is totally ridiculous in this day and age. It really does read like Austen - who, even back then, had little patience for such nonsense.

doodoot

OP if you are in your early 30's, been with your partner for 3 years and can't bring yourself to talk to him about your future together then perhaps you SHOULD be looking for a flat to move into.

It's the 21st century and women are STILL harping on about men not proposing...hasn't feminism come far.:o

Mojisola

podperson wrote: »

By proposing to me OH was saying that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me - by accepting I said the same thing. We're not particularly traditional and since we live together anyway getting married isn't really going to change anything for us

If you don't go through with the legal bit, you do have to make sure you're both protected when one of you dies - wills, house ownership, named person on insurances, pensions, etc. It's also worth getting each other registered as next-of-kin with the doctors so that blood relations don't get to make decisions that the partner should be making.

Peater

As a bloke, I would take alot of convincing that i was ever 'ready' to get married.

Take the bull by the horns, cancel your cosmo/grazia subscription and just bl00dy propose yourself!

jtr2803

Brighton_belle wrote: »

And this isn't what I meant - the women are standing back so the men aren't 'nagged into it' - that is the basis of that whole thread really - the women expressing what they want in a calm adult manner, but then also respecting their partners enough to not push or nag someone into it, because marriage on such a basis is not of value to them. Some men find the committment of marriage really scary, then when they finally do it, love it.

BB you have said in one paragraph what I have tried to say in all my replies so far!

Lovelyjoolz, it's clear that you and I have differing ideas and I don't want to argue. I think you have maybe misunderstood what the thread is about, it's not a group of women !!!!!ing about the fact our men haven't proposed but we haven't had the grace to at least indicate our choices. It's more about the fact that there is a mutual agreement that marriage is on the cards in the future and just waiting until a wedding or formal engagement happens.

I don't want to nag or push him into anything. He knows how I feel and that's why I have my own deadline, if at that point he is no further in deciding it will actually happen then I have to assess whether I want to continue like that.

Lovelyjoolz

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

and it definitely wouldn't happen after a joint decision. If she constantly asked and mentioned it then it'd just get put off for longer

Well, there are two points there, firstly, nagging is ALWAYS bad, regardless of the subject. And constantly going on about anything is boring all round. But what you're saying makes no sense. Are you saying that you'd only propose if you hadn't discussed it first? You're either a nutter or just love to run the risk of a flat out refusal!

I'm not a fan of marriage (been there, done that, it's overrated - just a bit of paper - and besides, divorce is a pain in the !!!!!) but I do understand that some people want it, especially if they want children. What I can't get is the daft notion that it should be some out-of-the-blue overblown romantic gesture that shouldn't be rationally discussed beforehand.

My eyes have been opened on this thread. I have perhaps made some assumptions that I shouldn't have on the 'waiting for a proposal' thread, but one thing is perfectly clear - both men and women have a very strange way of looking at the subject and neither way is particularly grown-up!