Advice on rejecting men....

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Person_one wrote: »

This is problematic Jojo, it suggests that those of us who've had to put up with a lot of harassment are doing something wrong, we don't have the right body language, we're too afraid, we're weak.

That's blaming us just as much as the idiots who tell us to wear long coats and baggy jumpers.

Sometimes harassers respond to strength, to hostility, to confidence with affronted aggression, as if it personally offends them that you don't fit their stereotype of a weak and meek little woman. I've had that a lot.

Body strength or the lack of it isn't a failing - I can't hide the fact that I've got big shoulders and can carry a great slab of bass around anymore than someone else can hide that they are 4 foot 11 and 7 stone. Having the thing strapped to my back could give the hint that I'm rather encumbered at present.

I have also worked at offender units, the Probation Service and various hospital environments, as well as a rough-as pub.

I don't go out to be hostile. Never. Why attract a fight? As I don't seem to get the sort of attention that others report, all I can do is consider what differences there are about me that appear to give the pests the impression that I'd be far too much like hard work for them. sometimes a smile and a bit of charm defuses the situation far better, sometimes a **** off is the best choice.


If you look at how a female police officer carries herself, you can spot one off duty. She's been trained because it's more likely she is going to come into contact with violence and aggression than the rest of us - it's not saying she's a failure for needing training, it's saying she needs it to keep herself safe in her job, especially when she could easily be 5 foot 2 and 8 stone wringing wet.

We are getting so brainwashed that we can't possibly go out in the dark, that we can't be alone, that we can't eat in public without a man to give us legitimacy, that the streets are for men and the kitchens are for us. If you can spot a predator personality from a distance, then they can spot an easier target.


Maybe one day I'll have the misfortune of ticking all the boxes for some scrote. But I haven't so far. It doesn't make me better than anyone else, but perhaps there is something I have done that someone else could benefit from considering.

lostinrates

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Body strength or the lack of it isn't a failing - I can't hide the fact that I've got big shoulders and can carry a great slab of bass around anymore than someone else can hide that they are 4 foot 11 and 7 stone. Having the thing strapped to my back could give the hint that I'm rather encumbered at present.

I have also worked at offender units, the Probation Service and various hospital environments, as well as a rough-as pub.

I don't go out to be hostile. Never. Why attract a fight? As I don't seem to get the sort of attention that others report, all I can do is consider what differences there are about me that appear to give the pests the impression that I'd be far too much like hard work for them. sometimes a smile and a bit of charm defuses the situation far better, sometimes a **** off is the best choice.


If you look at how a female police officer carries herself, you can spot one off duty. She's been trained because it's more likely she is going to come into contact with violence and aggression than the rest of us - it's not saying she's a failure for needing training, it's saying she needs it to keep herself safe in her job, especially when she could easily be 5 foot 2 and 8 stone wringing wet.

We are getting so brainwashed that we can't possibly go out in the dark, that we can't be alone, that we can't eat in public without a man to give us legitimacy, that the streets are for men and the kitchens are for us. If you can spot a predator personality from a distance, then they can spot an easier target.


Maybe one day I'll have the misfortune of ticking all the boxes for some scrote. But I haven't so far. It doesn't make me better than anyone else, but perhaps there is something I have done that someone else could benefit from considering.

Hm, well, I have been a target multiple times and used to move well with confidence and assertion as you desribe due to various physical training and emotional robustness I am very confident, but a weirdo magnet, even when quietly reading a book. I used to work as a criminal solicitor's clerk and felt confident and comfortable with most of ''my'' scotes, and most people i the street and tube. Working I only once had any trouble (as did the barrister who refused to do anything else for the client and a new male barrister was instructed) in that scenario, but London streets to me feel in some places very different to how they did a short time in the past. For what its worth I know people in security services and the Met who say the same (though I am sure some say different too...). BUT you are also right, its not a no go area, and to not enjoy living in London would be a crying shame. It doesn't mean that taking some precautions isn't a wise idea!

reheat

Jinx wrote: »

I need some advice to pass to my daughter ladies about rejecting men in the city....

Shes at Uni in London, a pretty 19 year old curves in all the right places. She travels by bus and tube for uni and work. Its public transport that she is mainly having an issue with. She seems to be magnetic to men that she wouldnt consider boyfriend material for whatever reason. The issue is getting rid of them without any conflict.

For example last night she was ignoring a guy who sat next to her in a near empty bus and because she wasnt responding, he decided to put his hand on her leg and was then offended when she loudly told him where to get off.

So what is the best advice? The last time I told her to be more forceful she said that you dont know who carries a knife, which is fair point. I live in the sticks in Scotland and appreciate London is a world apart. She has had some anxiety issues not re this but this is not helping at all.

Advice please on best approach/ wording...?

Many thanks
Jinx

Sounds to me like your daughter's response was spot on, and his initial action and subsequent response confirming why he is not remotely boyfriend material. But there is always the worry that such a person might turn nasty.

As a fellah (one having experienced quite a few rejections in his time!) I would say the "firm but fair" approach comes across best from a woman. Making it very clear the man needs to look elsewhere, whilst not belittling the chap either by words or body language. But I suspect it's a very difficult balancing act for a woman to pull off. And in the example you gave, the man to my mind gave up his right to not be belittled, but it would still be a very risky response.

reheat

Looking through this thread reminds me of an occasion one evening many years ago, when I was in Scotland for a couple of weeks, with some of my RAF mates. We'd bought some fish and chips after a few beers, and my much more confident (Scottish as it happens) mate decided to approach this young lady who was also walking along the street eating fish and chips. His blatant chat up line was backed up by a prop - a wooden fork which he offered her. Quick as a flash, in her rich Scottish accent, she replied "Why don't you just fork off!". We all roared with laughter at this quick witted rebuttal, and went on our way.

reheat

AdmiralX wrote: »

... Public transport is not the usual place for attackers and rapists.

Late night buses in Brighton are not the best place to be.

wherediditallgothen

Perhaps if she were to buy a cheap wedding ring and wear it in locations where she is likely to be approached, it might cut some of it down?

Not sure if it has been suggested before, but my wife just flashes her wedding ring surreptitiously when approached and it seems to have cut a lot of this sort of thing out she says.

lostinrates

wherediditallgothen wrote: »

Perhaps if she were to buy a cheap wedding ring and wear it in locations where she is likely to be approached, it might cut some of it down?

Not sure if it has been suggested before, but my wife just flashes her wedding ring surreptitiously when approached and it seems to have cut a lot of this sort of thing out she says.

Its likely to cut out ''chat up'' approaches. Pervy ones less so I'd have thought. The guy described rubbing up a girls skirt on the tube probably didn't care whether or not she was married.

Errata

A wedding ring certainly won't put off the flashers, they're not looking at or thinking about a woman's hand
My niece left the tube station by the rear exit to walk to her BF's car, middle of the evening, worn out after a long hard day's work in the West End. She got flashed at and was so knackered and !!!!!! off she said 'sorry mate, I can't be f**king arsssed' and carried on as if nothing had happened :rotfl:
TOWIE rules !

euronorris

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Maybe one day I'll have the misfortune of ticking all the boxes for some scrote. But I haven't so far. It doesn't make me better than anyone else, but perhaps there is something I have done that someone else could benefit from considering.

But this is the problem. How can we act or dress or carry ourselves a certain way to avoid trouble, when the triggers (or boxes that need to be ticked) vary from guy to guy. For some, standing your ground and telling to **** off will be effective, for others it will escalate the situation.

The only thing we can do, is refuse to live in fear, learn how to get out of certain grips, situations, know how to throw a punch/kick, be certain that running asap is the best option, and know how and when to get help where ever we are.

euronorris

lostinrates wrote: »

Its likely to cut out ''chat up'' approaches. Pervy ones less so I'd have thought. The guy described rubbing up a girls skirt on the tube probably didn't care whether or not she was married.

For some, it just makes you a 'challenge'.