Placing a child in to foster care. + the history

pinkclouds

Not much constructive to say except: I fully agree with all the others who said to tell the daughter the truth about her father.

Personally, as a total layperson, I think there is a lot of fear and anger out there and that we are more likely to lash out at those dear to us than strangers - we feel safer expressing feelings at home. I think there is also love there because she is taking it out on her family and because her family are hurt by it - if there wasn't then no-one would care. It's a negative expression though. It must be hard to move forwards and draw a line under your past and then have someone persistently drag you back towards it. It's also hard to never have closure and never be able to move forwards. I truly hope there will be some positive changes for you all.

Finally, we are all individuals. The elder boy is not the same person as his sister and may not be affected in the same way. And neither child is their father and they do not need to walk the same path.

pinkclouds

paddy's_mum wrote: »

The OP would have to be a saint of the highest order not to feel something close to hatred for her daughter. What mother could continue to wholeheartedly love a person who was causing such damage to her other children?

In my view, the OP is in an impossible situation and I have nothing but praise for her. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes ... would you?

I would *not* want to be in her shoes. I freely admit I've read this thread thinking: I'm so thankful this isn't me and my family. However - and I also admit this sounds terribly pious and po-faced - "hate the sin, not the person". Can you not still love a person but hate what they've done? Is forgiveness never possible? Even criminals are allowed to pay their debts. (Although, perhaps some are given too short a "payment" plan...) Your parents are supposed to love you unconditionally. The father has already failed her and her brother. That only leaves the mother. It is a lot for the mom to deal with but there is no one else bar the one "above", if you believe in such things.

adouglasmhor

paddy's_mum wrote: »

Sometimes, a child can just be evil, full stop. Our prisons and secure mental hospitals are full of them.

You actually believe that? I am disgusted. Prisons and mental hospitals are full of damaged people some of whom were made into evil people by their life.

TeamLowe

Just to say, OP, my that husband was around three when his father left his mother. no one has spoke to me about how horrible and abusive his father was to his mother. apart from my husband. he remembers it very clearly and is very much scarred by it, although his mother and auntie were always honest about it with him whilst he was growing up.
His sister is around fifteen months younger than him, about the same gap as your eldest two i think, and she remembers nothing and has no concept of how awful their lives were, even though she knows the truth. she even comes home from visiting him telling their mother how absoultely wonderful he is.
knowing him, i can't imagine how your girl feels, she must be so messed up by it all, especially when she knows how you got her scars but you lie to her about it. i think a big conversation will go a long way to healing your relationship, as horrible and hard as it will be for you.
i have so much sympathy for both you and your daughter as you're both suffering so badly and need each other so badly but too much has happened
Good Luck, OP, i hope you both get the help you need to have a happy family life.

RAS

Hi

I understand the OP's difficulty dealing with a child who rages against her siblings but the OP's behaviour was unacceptable as well; this child has experienced violence at the hands of both her father and her mother and that ain't good.

In the short term, the OP needs urgent support to deal with the conflicting feeling she feels about her daughter. She may then be able to tell her daughter what happened to the child when she was so young. And tell the truth about the scarring because you can bet that this child knows mum is lying. The child does not need to now all the rest.

I suspect that the daughter is experiencing something like PTSD which means that she responds unreasonably to triggers that may be quite subtle.

Ny own experience is not as bad a flutterby's but I had PTSD for years. I did not see my father voluntarily after I was eight and freaked out when I did. The courts eventually halted his attempts to gain access. It was only with his death that I started to let go and even then I could crash when a trigger set off memories. Given the fragmented nature of these I was not even sure exactly what had happened myself. That has been largely sorted now.

More interesting is the situation regarding one of my siblings who always sought as much contact with him as possible. This led to major rifts in the family; basic things like this child not being allowed to know where other siblings were living because the information would be passed on.

Said sibling is convince that the incidents never happened. Any mention of the situation led to aggression, shouting, rapid movements round the whole room with arms waving in front of the face etc. For me the breakthrough was when I relasie that even though this sibling was "too young to remember what happened", actually they have not concious recall but they do remember and cannot cope with recalling. Hence the desparate arm movements used to protect them from any flash backs and fragments of memories.

I suspect the daughter has some flashbacks; certainly my normal domestic memories for the age 3-4 are quite extensive. She may remember what happened to her; she may remember some of what happened to mum. She needs urgent psychotherapy to help deal with the PTSD and at some stage rather more truth from her mother. She may blame mum for the breakdown of the first marriage, she may think she is to blame in some way because mum left after dad assaulted the child. She needs help to sort this through before she gets any older and starts to self-destruct.

Ravenlady_2

I think if the OP is to take her daughter back they both need to accept responsibilty for their actions, regardless of what happened in the past the daughter must not be allowed to continue to use violence as a way to gain control.

I personally would allow the daughter back if she wanted to come back but make it clear violence in any form will result in her leaving permanently, too many yoof refuse to take responsibilty and lay blame elsewhere, the OP has stated she can control it around others. It goes against human nature to abandon our young but it also goes against human nature to attack babies.

The daughter did not like being challenged at all by the mother and being on the receiving end of her actions and maybe this is the reality check she needed to make her realise that she cant continue this way.

paddy's_mum

adouglasmhor wrote: »

some of whom ...

Fair comment ... but what about the others who weren't made that way by awful experiences in their life? Where does their rage, hatred and viciousness come from?

rachbc

paddy's_mum wrote: »

Sometimes, a child can just be evil, full stop. Our prisons and secure mental hospitals are full of them.

It is naive in the extreme to think that a chummy chat or a bit of counselling will mend the problem.
.
The OP would have to be a saint of the highest order not to feel something close to hatred for her daughter. What mother could continue to wholeheartedly love a person who was causing such damage to her other children?

In my view, the OP is in an impossible situation and I have nothing but praise for her. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes ... would you?

Prisons and hospitals are full of damaged and abused people not just 'evil' ones.

Yes a chummy chat won't solve anything - but counselling/ psychotherapy/ family therapy are very very much more than a chat - and it'll certainly do a lot more than hating and being violent towards her own daughter.

I wouldn't want to be in her shoes no - but praising her unconditionally helps no one- neither her nor her daughter, nor the rest of the children who will only continue to suffer if the OP doesn't at least start on her journey to help her daughter heal.

chriszzz

When i met hubby ds took to him straight away, football, dirt bikes, generally acting like clowns, they just gelled, my dd initialy took to him but about 6 months after the subject of her dad cropped up and never went away. I refused to go further in to details with her which enraged her, i contemplated telling her but no child needs to hear that.

I think your problem started with the above, you refused her to discuss with her what she wanted to know, she has that right whether you think she needs to hear that, but refusing to discuss with her about her dad and then she sees her other siblings being around their dad....can you imagine how that might feel to her, she could possibly feel isolated in her feelings, she obviously has a need to know about her father and holding information back from her is like not making her feelings important, she has then retaliated by displaying bad behaviour, maybe its her way of showing you how upset she has been. I dont know if this is the answer but i think it may be possibly why she has so much anger.

Is it possible that you could spend some time with her, by yourselves and try and build a relationship with her, i think to have an open and honest relationship with her may help her understand why she has been holding so much pent up anger. I do hope things work out for both you and your daughter.

shegirl

paddy's_mum wrote: »

Sometimes, a child can just be evil, full stop. Our prisons and secure mental hospitals are full of them.

It is naive in the extreme to think that a chummy chat or a bit of counselling will mend the problem.

My sympathies are entirely with the OP who must be reeling with hurt, shock, dread and fear.

A girl of 14 is more than capable of deciding whether or not to continue with behaviour that is destructive and dangerous. I'd also add that over the years, my own experiences with two abusive people (one a relative and one a former boyfriend) has proved to me beyond doubt that they are unbelievably clever in their manipulations and highly adept at hiding the truth.

The OP would have to be a saint of the highest order not to feel something close to hatred for her daughter. What mother could continue to wholeheartedly love a person who was causing such damage to her other children?

In my view, the OP is in an impossible situation and I have nothing but praise for her. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes ... would you?

It's ridiculous opinions like that that encourage people to ignore their responsibilities and pass children and people off as 'evil'.Disgusting!

Those people in prisons or mental hospitals were not born 'evil' they're a product of life and society or illness/dysfunction in the brain.If you pass them off as 'evil' as a child and therefore forgo any responsibility and don't try to get to the bottom of it and fix it then they become what those in prison and mental hospitals are as adults!