Placing a child in to foster care. + the history

At-wits-end

My eldest child suffers from what is basically rage.

She is angry at everything, everyone and anything that moves but more than anything else she hates me with a passion, ever since we left her dad (he was abusive to live with and attacked our children which was the final straw) the trouble is she cant remember this, he lifted her up and held her against the wall by her neck effectively strangling her whilst slapping her face, threw our then 20 month old baby boy across the room and threatened to set him on fire, there are things he did to me after which I cant rewrite.

He left to get some fags from the shop at midnight the nearest place was the service station 11 miles away, we escaped by smashing the back door window in and legged it, we walked across 7 fields (we lived in the country with only 2 roads to our house) for what seemed like hours, carrying a sleeping 3 on my back and a nearly 2 year old tied to me with a jumper and half fastened in my coat it was light by the time we got to the police station.

In hindsight I should have phoned the police from the house but I couldn't find my mobile and didn't stick around to look harder, th home phone had been smashed.

We were taken to hospital then released to refuge, charges were dropped 4 months later due to lack of evidence. :mad:

Skip forward 10 years to today after moving 3 further times we settled down, I met a wonderful man, we married and went on to have twin boys and had what I thought was a happy family life. My daughter has always been a handful, highly spirited and a bit stubborn but that was just her, around about 7 or 8 she started asking about her dad (not met hubby then) we had a chat that we had to go because he wasn't being very nice to us, i had figured she has no recollection of what happened and left it at that.

When i met hubby ds took to him straight away, football, dirt bikes, generally acting like clowns, they just gelled, my dd initialy took to him but about 6 months after the subject of her dad cropped up and never went away. I refused to go further in to details with her which enraged her, i contemplated telling her but no child needs to hear that.

Now she is just the worst child I could ever imagine, she is violent to all her brothers, she bit one so hard he needed stitches, throws shoes and purposely place items in the babies cots that she knew could choke them such as money, buttons and will pinch and slap them the second I leave the room, i stepped out and stepped back in the room and caught her red handed. Her room is trashed on a weekly basis, windows smashed, lamps smashed, chairs smashed clothes ripped and shoved down the toilet, she is an animal at times. Her room is now just a bed and wardrobe, we cant afford to replace it all.

However at school she is a star pupil so i know she can choose to control her temper, Im just scared for my other children safety, she will bite, kick and hurl abuse at me. My husband caught her in the nursery at 5am recently and said she just looked possessed stood at the end of the cots.

Its a daily chore of trying to keep the younger boys either with me or hubby and keep her happy, ds1 is terrified of her and will not be left alone with her.

She has been evaluated by a child psychologist who said after 4 months of weekly visits that she is a happy, healthy normal girl and nothing has suggested that she is suffering from any problems or conditions.

We hired a behaviour specialist to come to our home where dd behaved impeccably and after a week we seemed to get back on track.

Last weekend she came home drunk from the park, started a physical fight with her brother ds1, first time i believe she has got drunk, i lost it with her. I slapped her where I would usually restrain her and told her i wish i never had her, dragged her to the bathroom and left her under a cold shower whist shouting and screaming at her

She was grounded to her room for a weekend and returned to school, 3 hours later social services called at the house after she reported to the school that I had attacked and abused her and the boys for the last year, verbally abused her and forced her to take a cold shower for 3 hours. I had left a bruise on her eyebrow where my ring caught her, I admitted everything, spilling it all out and they stayed with me for the rest of the day going through our options.

My children were taken in to care that evening, they collected some belongings and told me they would be back the following day and some space would be the best course of action.

On tuesday they returned asking if I would be willing to place DD in to permanent foster care, my boys were returned after ds1 was interveiwed as they found a huge contrast in statements from my eldest children.

Im so torn at the moment, she is in temporary care until I come to a decision, I cant bring myself to go and see her as she has caused so much stress and hurt from her actions and for the day or so my boys ahve been back they look relaxed, still a bit upset about being taken away but they dont look on edge. I have fully realised how much she has affected my other children.

I tried to do the best for her and just feel utterly betrayed by my own child.

There is so much more but this is the basic history.

puddy

im sorry to hear that, dealing with a violent history and helping children understand their parental identity in that context is very hard

i would imagine that it isnt one thing that is contributing to her behaviour, there will have been some destabilising situations back in the past as well as some unprocessed stuff from her dad which is all within her and resulting in her behaviour.

she wont know necessarily what she feels or why she feels it, its common that children who have some inkling that a parent was violent (or ill, or died) will then blame the surviving parent, either for still being there, or in the case of bereavement for not dying. its very confused and complex

however as best you tried to protect her from knowledge about her father, you have inadvertently created a missing bit of her identity. she may be confused and angry about this. she may have a medical need which results in mood swings or poor impulse control. telling her about her father, making sure she understands her own history is not the same as telling her all the ins and outs about him or presenting him as the devil incarnate either. remember, all children know they are half you and half their dad, so they identify with both parents

however, you also need to look at your own relationship with her and explore how that has developed or possibly changed over the years. you describe her in negative terms and say that you feel 'betrayed' but this is a child who is unlikely to have an agenda as such, despite how that may feel. a child this angry and disturbed is very vulnerable and unhappy.

what support have SSD offered? is there a camhs referral?

ILoveEoin

i didnt want 2 read and run! but i have no advice wat so ever apart from hugs and good luck xx

KiKi

I'm genuinely not sure if you're for real, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt (as I hope someone would me).

Foster care may indeed be the best place for your child right now.

What you have been through is horrific. What horrifies me more is that you are blaming your child for betraying you, for being angry, and for reporting you for hitting her. You stuck her in a cold shower to punish her for being drunk and for picking a fight.

She may have only been three when you left your abusive partner (well done for leaving). But children absorb a HUGE amount, emotionally, physically and mentally. She appears to have some very serious emotional problems - which may have some medical issue behind them, but much more likely come from remnants of the abuse she suffered (and witnessed) when she was very young. In turn, she's frustrated she can't hear about her dad, and although you have had behavioural specialists in, she hasn't appeared to have been able to talk about what she's feeling.

Even if I'm way off and it's nothing to do with her dad (though I wouldn't bet against it), she seems to need some help, counselling, and love. I'm not saying you haven't done those things, but right now you seem so angry at her, maybe you can't provide that.

I'm afraid that in being a parent you are sacrificial. You can't expect your child to not do wrong, or to not get drunk, or to not pick fights. You are supposed to do your best for her - but you seem to blame her in some way for 'betraying' you? You HIT her. You stuck her in a cold shower. You might regret it now, but if a child posted on here saying their mum hit them and forced them into a cold shower everyone would be telling them to ring childline or tell another responsible adult. You may (and I only say 'may' here) have reinforced any memories or emotions she had around abuse from her very young childhood.

I'm sorry to sound harsh, and I can't tell you what to do. But you're the adult, she's the child, and whilst you think she's betrayed you, I also think you've let her down, too. I'd be giving her space so that you can BOTH get some help here. Take it whilst SS are involved, and then plan what you're going to do to make things better.

KiKi


ETA - just wanted to clarify that I don't mean you've let her down in life, generally (you left the abusive ex and you've done your best with her, I understand that). I mean that I feel you've let her down by hitting her and physically punishing her when you know what she's been through already. I think you probably need some help coming to terms with all that, too.

jennysmith_2

My Mother was never physically violent but mentally very very distructive to me I drank at any moment possible (from 14) and smoked weed (from 16) to take away the pain. I personally, looking back now, I wanted attention, love, to take away old memories...I had nothing to focus on and nothing to look forward to in life which is why I did what I did. I even today suffer with panic attacks which has developed in replace of my anger

I am sure you arn't like my mother, she is one sandwich short of a picnic to say the least.

I find your behaviour disgraceful but understandable...but you cant stop violence with violence.

I suggest you take interest in what she is interested horses, art, motorbikes etc etc and invest the time and money in her and her interests and give her somthing to focus on, aims in life and belief in herself. For me it was tropical fish when a local employer gave me a chance

Darlyd

O god I feel for you I really do. I am going through similar with my DD1. It's so buddy hard.

You have a good rest, and take your time in thinking what you want.

I feel some days when DD is being an animal that I wish I had someone to come take her away, I would still want her here with me, BUT also in care, if that makes sense? Always keep in touch with her through out your decision, and talk to her either yourself or ask Social Worker to talk to her, and see what she wants.

BUT You DO have to think of your other children in this, DD2 of mine suffers a lot, it's heart breaking that SS won't help me. Have only now started to get help via other means, I know exactly what your going through.

Even though my Ex (her Father) was not that bad, he was still horrible and violent towards us. I think this has a lot to do with my DD1 anger/rage. She has wrecked so much in this house, front door been smashed, banister been smashed, holes in doors etc, my DH (not her dad) does not want her here when she is like this, he gets so p'd off with it, and makes me feel like None of us are wanted, and that it's all my fault, even though I tread on egg shells, he just blurts out to her she is doing wrong, have to tread careful hey? But shouldn't be this way..


Feel free to pm me for some friendly support...

puddy

KiKi wrote: »

She may have only been three when you left your abusive partner (well done for leaving). But children absorb a HUGE amount, emotionally, physically and mentally. She appears to have some very serious emotional problems - which may have some medical issue behind them, but much more likely come from remnants of the abuse she suffered (and witnessed) when she was very young. In turn, she's frustrated she can't hear about her dad, and although you have had behavioural specialists in, she hasn't appeared to have been able to talk about what she's feeling.



KiKi

i forgot to add this bit too.

you say (and lots of mums say this for some reason) that their child was too young to remember any of the violence/arguments/dysfunction. but this is so wrong. she may not be able to remember specific incidents, she may not be able to explain a memory of fear or shouting or chaos or pain, but i can tell you that she will have 'experienced' it and therefore this will be within her understanding of that time and that relationship

children that grow up in violence or have very early experiences of it in their formative years have a very contradictory and complex relationship with violence.

it sounds odd to say but children grow up both fearing the perpetrator but in awe of them and wanting to identify with the perpetrator. a child with a violent role model (main carer/abuser) learns that this person is in control and therefore will never be a victim like them or their other carer (in this case mum)

so they learn both, that to be the perpetrator means that you're the one in control, which means you can never be the victim and it means that you need never be afraid. they learn this whilst still being afraid of the perpetrator which reinforces that feeling that the perpetrator is someone to look up to.

the other thing they learn believe it or not is relief at the violent event. for children that experience violence to themselves or others in the home, they know that this is coming at some point, there is a build up of anxiety and fear. once the violence is carried out and they survive in some way, or the other carer has survived, there is a feeling of relief and 'come down'. as time goes on, these feelings affect behavioural development, physiological development which prompts the child to associate violence with a positive feeling (the relief) and also the act of being the perpetrator which they have associated with the lack of being the victim

children subject to violence in their early years can be really damaged unless they get proper help. she does need understanding not condemnation otherwise she will not learn to understand her own feelings and control her behaviour

meritaten

hun, try not to think of it as your daughter betraying you. it could be that your daughter has the same mental problems as your ex. (to do what you did indicates that you were in fear of your life from someone with an extreme mental illness).
I would go to see her - but be very careful - just keep telling her you love her but she cannot live with you right now. Foster care may well help you - if she acts out in foster care (but I doubt it) then it will reinforce what you have said. Hun, you have to keep yourself, your OH and your children safe - from what you said, they arent with DD around.

At-wits-end

puddy wrote: »

im sorry to hear that, dealing with a violent history and helping children understand their parental identity in that context is very hard

i would imagine that it isnt one thing that is contributing to her behaviour, there will have been some destabilising situations back in the past as well as some unprocessed stuff from her dad which is all within her and resulting in her behaviour.

she wont know necessarily what she feels or why she feels it, its common that children who have some inkling that a parent was violent (or ill, or died) will then blame the surviving parent, either for still being there, or in the case of bereavement for not dying. its very confused and complex

however as best you tried to protect her from knowledge about her father, you have inadvertently created a missing bit of her identity. she may be confused and angry about this. she may have a medical need which results in mood swings or poor impulse control. telling her about her father, making sure she understands her own history is not the same as telling her all the ins and outs about him or presenting him as the devil incarnate either. remember, all children know they are half you and half their dad, so they identify with both parents

however, you also need to look at your own relationship with her and explore how that has developed or possibly changed over the years. you describe her in negative terms and say that you feel 'betrayed' but this is a child who is unlikely to have an agenda as such, despite how that may feel. a child this angry and disturbed is very vulnerable and unhappy.

what support have SSD offered? is there a camhs referral?

She was referred to camhs by our GP and they concluded that she had no underlying illnesses and appeared to a happy healthy child.

When she calms down she always insists that she doesn't know why she snaps, I try and do things with her as often as I can but with the other children we only tend to spend saturday and sundays mornings together, we go to the farmers market, do some shopping, go to a cafe or hairdressers but even then she can snap in a matter of seconds.

We used to have a good relationship and even though she was lively at times there was a lot of happiness.

It changed for the worse after I had the twins even though she was ecstastic when we found out it was twins, came to scans, played with the baby things endlessly and generally seemed very happy to be a big sister when they were actually here it was a different story.

I know she is jealous but I cant pop them back in now, if I would I could but its impossible

At-wits-end

darlyd wrote: »

O god I feel for you I really do. I am going through similar with my DD1. It's so buddy hard.

You have a good rest, and take your time in thinking what you want.

I feel some days when DD is being an animal that I wish I had someone to come take her away, I would still want her here with me, BUT also in care, if that makes sense? Always keep in touch with her through out your decision, and talk to her either yourself or ask Social Worker to talk to her, and see what she wants.

BUT You DO have to think of your other children in this, DD2 of mine suffers a lot, it's heart breaking that SS won't help me. Have only now started to get help via other means, I know exactly what your going through.

Even though my Ex (her Father) was not that bad, he was still horrible and violent towards us. I think this has a lot to do with my DD1 anger/rage. She has wrecked so much in this house, front door been smashed, banister been smashed, holes in doors etc, my DH (not her dad) does not want her here when she is like this, he gets so p'd off with it, and makes me feel like None of us are wanted, and that it's all my fault, even though I tread on egg shells, he just blurts out to her she is doing wrong, have to tread careful hey? But shouldn't be this way..


Feel free to pm me for some friendly support...

Thank you.

At-wits-end

meritaten wrote: »

hun, try not to think of it as your daughter betraying you. it could be that your daughter has the same mental problems as your ex. (to do what you did indicates that you were in fear of your life from someone with an extreme mental illness).
I would go to see her - but be very careful - just keep telling her you love her but she cannot live with you right now. Foster care may well help you - if she acts out in foster care (but I doubt it) then it will reinforce what you have said. Hun, you have to keep yourself, your OH and your children safe - from what you said, they arent with DD around.

If she does have a mental illness its a very clever one that managed to outwit our GP, the health visitor, school nurse, a child psychologist and a behavioural specialist.