Placing a child in to foster care. + the history

January20

A lot of posters are telling the OP she should not allow to let her dd go into permanent foster care, because it would be bad for the daughter, but what would be best for the boys though?

adouglasmhor

paddy's_mum wrote: »

Fair comment ... but what about the others who weren't made that way by awful experiences in their life? Where does their rage, hatred and viciousness come from?

Never met one and I have worked in the Maze and Leverndale.

Ravenlady_2

January20 wrote: »

A lot of posters are telling the OP she should not allow to let her dd go into permanent foster care, because it would be bad for the daughter, but what would be best for the boys though?

Absolutely

Any

paddy's_mum wrote: »

Sometimes, a child can just be evil, full stop. Our prisons and secure mental hospitals are full of them.

It is naive in the extreme to think that a chummy chat or a bit of counselling will mend the problem.

My sympathies are entirely with the OP who must be reeling with hurt, shock, dread and fear.

A girl of 14 is more than capable of deciding whether or not to continue with behaviour that is destructive and dangerous. I'd also add that over the years, my own experiences with two abusive people (one a relative and one a former boyfriend) has proved to me beyond doubt that they are unbelievably clever in their manipulations and highly adept at hiding the truth.

The OP would have to be a saint of the highest order not to feel something close to hatred for her daughter. What mother could continue to wholeheartedly love a person who was causing such damage to her other children?

In my view, the OP is in an impossible situation and I have nothing but praise for her. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes ... would you?

Completely agree with this post. Well written.

KiKi wrote: »

I'm genuinely not sure if you're for real, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt (as I hope someone would me).
Why would you say that? On what basis exactly you doubt the story?????

Foster care may indeed be the best place for your child right now.

What you have been through is horrific. What horrifies me more is that you are blaming your child for betraying you, for being angry, and for reporting you for hitting her. You stuck her in a cold shower to punish her for being drunk and for picking a fight.

She may have only been three when you left your abusive partner (well done for leaving). But children absorb a HUGE amount, emotionally, physically and mentally. She appears to have some very serious emotional problems - which may have some medical issue behind them, but much more likely come from remnants of the abuse she suffered (and witnessed) when she was very young. In turn, she's frustrated she can't hear about her dad, and although you have had behavioural specialists in, she hasn't appeared to have been able to talk about what she's feeling.

Even if I'm way off and it's nothing to do with her dad (though I wouldn't bet against it), she seems to need some help, counselling, and love. I'm not saying you haven't done those things, Yes that is exactly what you are saying but right now you seem so angry at her, No, really?? You must be saint to be able to be always calm, no matter how much sh** someone is purposely throwing at you maybe you can't provide that.

I'm afraid that in being a parent you are sacrificial. You can't expect your child to not do wrong, or to not get drunk, or to not pick fights. You are supposed to do your best for her - but you seem to blame her in some way for 'betraying' you? You HIT her. AND?? Lets wait until she kills the DS1, then we'll see You stuck her in a cold shower. Good on OP!! You might regret it now, but if a child posted on here saying their mum hit them and forced them into a cold shower everyone would be telling them to ring childline or tell another responsible adult. You may (and I only say 'may' here) have reinforced any memories or emotions she had around abuse from her very young childhood.
Right... but the OP shouldn't be reminded of it I suppose... what, with one person terryfying the whole household!! Babies needing stitches!! Have you thought of the other members of household?

I'm sorry to sound harsh, and I can't tell you what to do. But you're the adult, she's the child, and whilst you think she's betrayed you, I also think you've let her down, too. I'd be giving her space so that you can BOTH get some help here. Take it whilst SS are involved, and then plan what you're going to do to make things better.

KiKi


ETA - just wanted to clarify that I don't mean you've let her down in life, generally (you left the abusive ex and you've done your best with her, I understand that). I mean that I feel you've let her down by hitting her and physically punishing her when you know what she's been through already. I think you probably need some help coming to terms with all that, too.

Quite unreal...

DomRavioli

mikey72 wrote: »

By what method?
All medical reports have shown her as a normal well behaved child.

By the simple method that is calling the police and an approved mental health practitioner when she is in one of these "rages" so that they can take the appropriate action. It is never an easy decision to force a child to get help, and I would only advocate it in extreme circumstances, but you do have 2 other children to think about.

peachyprice

January20 wrote: »

A lot of posters are telling the OP she should not allow to let her dd go into permanent foster care, because it would be bad for the daughter, but what would be best for the boys though?

I don't think she should go into permanent forster care yet, not until they've received help as a family to try to make the situation work and all else has failed. Once she's in permanent care, that's it, end of the road for that family.

But I don't think she should go home yet either, they both need to agree that they are going to accept any help avalable, they both need to work hard at their relationship and until things improve she should not be allowed home, not as a punishment, but to give her a safe place with space and freedom to consider her options outside of the family.

I really really hope SS don't press OP into making a hasty decision and give her only the options of letting her DD come home now or permanent foster care.

puddy

January20 wrote: »

A lot of posters are telling the OP she should not allow to let her dd go into permanent foster care, because it would be bad for the daughter, but what would be best for the boys though?

all the children in this family need protection and support. but as a child, how secure would you feel about your own place in the family unit if you saw your sibling 'given away' because she was naughty? children do not process information in the same black and white way that the above is presented.

Triker

Hi OP, I read this last night but didn't reply.

My thoughts....have some recovery time ....all of you. Your DD needs some time and space to reflect, as do you, as do the other members of your family. Sometimes family situations are like a ticking bomb, eventually it explodes, you have nothing to do any more than to clear the debris and rebuild. This is where I would focus my efforts at the moment.

These situations take months, if not years to develop, it'll take some more time to build a new relationship with your daughter. Clearly the one you and your partner had with her has been destructive for some time.

As parents we all know that if we say something to our teenage offspring, they don't appear to listen or indeed take it in....however when another, (not emotionally connected person) says exactly the same thing, maybe worded differently, they listen and process. This, no doubt, will be happening now with your daughter. She will have no choice but to hear and possibly process certain information.


This isn't a lose/lose situation, it can be salvaged.


So to be succinct...

Have some recovery time to reflect and move away from the distress and anger you all no doubt feel.

Take whatever professional help is available to you as a family.

Allow everyone to vent but remind each other that nobody will be disgarded or removed permanently from the family.

Don't feel guilty that you feel relieved that you do not have to deal with the atmosphere for a while. It sounds like you all have been treading on eggshells for a long time....this isn't how we are supposed to live, family life should be filled with love, laughter and tears, not just tears.

Draw on the amazing strength that has meant you have rescued your children previously from a negative and violent relationship. You can guide your daughter away from this by supporting the help she should now recieve. I'm not saying it'll be a smooth ride but being a parent never is.

Good luck to you all.

Ravenlady_2

puddy wrote: »

all the children in this family need protection and support. but as a child, how secure would you feel about your own place in the family unit if you saw your sibling 'given away' because she was naughty? children do not process information in the same black and white way that the above is presented.

But this child isnt just naughty, she has deliberately inflicted suffering on her entire family. This isnt a case of the child refusing to tidy her room or throwing a teen wobbly, it could be a case of life and death the next time she goes for someone less than half her size.

Safety of the babies must come first.

RAS

rachbc wrote: »

Prisons and hospitals are full of damaged and abused people not just 'evil' ones.

I remember a prison psychologist writing about a client who was jailed for killing his best friend after a drinking bout.

As part of their discussions that PP asked about the family background. But the sessions got nowhere. And the PP felt that this was one of the few clients who he needed to have support when during sessions.

Then mum asked to vist the prisoner and he went to pieces and begged for an appointment. This burly bruiser was terrified of mum coming to visit. Mum had battered him, locked him in the coal shed and refused to feed him, ++++++. All the fear and terror of being a small child routinely subject to voilence came out. The PP helped him work through it.

Then they were able to talk about the death of his friend. It turned out that when the two men nowhere to sleep, the friend had insisted that they go to mum's house which was not too far away. Bruiser was terrified and did not want to go there, but friend would not stop pushing to go there. So bruiser hit friend in a desparate attempt to stop him going to mum's house, and they ended up fighting.

Had someone addressed the damage caused earlier this guy's life would have been very very different and his friend would be alive. He changed from a serious problem in prison to a model prisoner when his background was addressed.