Would you ask your son to leave home?

Bumpmakesfour

Wow Victory you must be devastated at your sons behaviour,I can't imagine how I'd feel if in ten years time my kids turned round and treated me like that:(

I went to a private school tx to passing exams and getting a bursary,we were by NO means well off.I was surrounded by girls with LOTS and lots of money living literally in mansions whilst we lived in a housing association house.On a lot of the girls 17th/18th bdays they were given brand new cars..I worked all hours to buy mine..a B reg metro
My mum and dad made sure that if I really wanted something I worked to get it,although sometimes,for things like driving lessons they matched what I saved.It taught me that things in life worth having need to be worked for early on...right from when I wanted riding lessons at about 8 years old and I was dropped off at the stables early on a saturday morning to muck out stables in return for cheaper lessons
I'm grateful they did that although it was hard being surrounded by money and having none myself :rotfl: BUT I can never recall being rude or disrespectful to my parents about it!I worked my whole way through 6th form and uni.By 18 I was pretty much self sufficient and my parents help when they turned up at halls with a box of food or I opened an unexpected letter and found a cheque for £30/£40 was very,very much appreciated
The absolute IRONY is that now my dad is now in another relationship with a woman with 2 grown up kids.The daughter is 21 and my dad keeps her,does her washing,puts up with her walking out on job after job then bungs her twenty quid to go out,pays her phone bill,gets up at 6am to make her and her mums lunches before he heads off for a 14 hour work day,starts their cars for them in winter to warm them up before they go out whilst they lay in bed etc etc blah blah :mad: but <-- that's a whole other story!!

I think this is a key opportunity to really teach your son a very valuable
lesson.Things aren't handed to you on a plate and the sooner he realises that the better.I know it will break your heart to have to put your foot down for his 18th but if you don't he'll move on through life thinking he can manipulate people into getting what he wants in return for absolutely zero effort from him.Wishing you lots of luck xx

girleight@

Hi Victory
It is a materialistic world these days and it seems like it is having a negative effect on your son. Peer pressure can be very strong on some people and however much you try to reason with him I reckon all he can think about is how much stuff all his mates have and whether they might laugh at him if he doesn't have the right things. Also it is quite tough to get a job at the moment and young people can get quickly disillusioned when they put in an online application and hear nothing. I don't think they are prepared for the amount of failure that occurs when you look for a job. Sometimes they don't want to try too hard out of a fear of failure rather than because they are lazy. Also nagging can often have the opposite effect as intended and make them not do something just because they want to rebel against the pressure. Many young people who have jobs found them through friends and family so I bet your son is jealous of how easily some of his mates got a job.

I'm not saying this to excuse your son, I know there are plenty of teens out there who manage to be less materialistic and to get a job in a difficult labour market, but I think his actions might be caused by a lack of confidence in himself. I work with young people and know lots of lads around your son's age and what ever the rights or wrongs this is the reality about a lot of them. They put in a few CVs and don't hear back and feel they will never get a job and so give up. They see their mates in trendy clothes and feel like they have to have them as they don't have the confidence to be an individual. Over the next couple of years he will grow up a bit and find this confidence. But I don't think there's much need for you to beat yourself up or to ask him to leave. If you can just stick to your guns and try not to take his behaviour so personally.

jellyhead

victory wrote: »

No allowance, money here and there but no strict allowance, he does his sunday jobs, hoovering, dusting, windows, dishwasher etc, so does the little one always has done always will do, little one does it happily, eldest moaning but does it.

I'm only on page 2 so sorry if this has already been said, but why not give him an allowance, but no extra money 'here and there'? Pay for football, then give him a monthly allowance. He will have control over where he spends it and if he desperately wants a branded pair of jeans, for example, he can buy it.

It works well for my 15 year old. I pay for his gym membership and for any school trips and duke of edinburgh expenses, and his phone contract (which works out at around £5 per month over the 24-month contract and is an android phone, look out for special deals with cashback on MSE and maybe get him one as a present?) but he knows that if he goes over the 100 minutes (very low amount I know, but he gets unlimited texts) he pays the difference himself.

My son's friends are all a lot richer than we are, and they get at least 3 times as much allowance as he gets and can have any clothes they want, anything they ask for for christmas etc. but having control over his own allowance and knowing that he can save up then blow 2 months worth of allowance on getting a special hoodie from the states means he is content with his lot.

KxMx

I don't know what the answer is, but do you think deep down he will ever change? You have said yourself he makes a little effort now and then and just reverts to type. You have to think about your other son and OH too, seems elder son is getting all the attention and causing major problems in your household.

And at 18, guidance is fine, but I think you need to take a step back from trying to help him with job/uni and let him sort it out on his own. How is he to learn to be independent if you don't?


I was at the rough end of a family dispute. Me at college ft and then ill doing all housework as Mum worked full time, she allowed my brother -working ft-to toss her a little rent money now and then (basically only when the asking for it was at fever pitch, then she would be mollified by one payment, and then it started again,.......) , all the while full of talk on how he was out if he didn't pay, didn't happen, knew it was all talk, he probably did too, he only moved out because his car went kaput so moved into Grandparents who are much closer to his job. He spent alot of time at then gf's which is fine, like your son he was golden boy there let me tell you, but if I say we only found out about the car after 2 weeks you get the picture about how he treated Mum. I would talk to her about the situation and she would get all upset, she was unapproachable about it. I can't tell you how much I resented her at the time, putting him first while I was slaving away, and I mean slaving away since neither of them would pick up so much as a crisp packet, and even though he hasn't been here for years and Mum has apoligised to me, I still resent what happened. It was both his fault for not paying and Mum's fault for allowing it to carry on. Especially given the fact that I fully believe as she would never have allowed that situation/for so long if it was me who was working ft and not giving her money. But he is the only boy in the family and as such been allowed to get away with murder!

jeanniebeanie_2

You describe you son as "needy", but you are constantly feeding that need. So much of your time is spent on him physically and mentally. The number of threads/posts about him, the constant stress and not sleeping. Discussion, negotiation, mulling over advice here, discussions with OH and the way his birthday has got totally out of proportion (It's ONE DAY!). You have put him in a very powerful position within the family and boy, does he know it!

This has gone on for so long, it won't change overnight. I would make a start with the birthday. Decide with OH what you want to do and can afford. Tell him ONCE then refuse to discuss it. Go ahead and do what you planned and if he throws it back in your face tell him that you hope that when he grows up he will look back and appreciate what you tried to do.

When given a list of his wants from you, counter with a list of your wants from him. Most of all tell him, and mean it, that he and his 18th are not the centre of your universe. His birthday will come and go and nothing in the world will have changed.

RacyRed

victory wrote: »

Exactly my point, I do worry also what my 11 year old sees and hears and accepts as the norm what will that make him when he is older?

My 11 year old is pole opposite, he offers to help, sees what needs to be done, goes and does it, never asks for anything, never complains, he is a joy to be with, great company, great sense of humour and fun, he knows we are not rich and he asks for nothing not even a beano comic when we go out because he knows that it is expensive etc he loves beano and gets them from the carboot sales and loves them just as much.

Your 11 year old sounds as if he works really well around the house. Don't you think it would be a good idea to reward his good behaviour by paying him a small amout for it, even if just a couple of pounds, so he can learn to budget for himself? Isn't a good move for him to be able to buy the Beano or sweets for himself? Getting them at car boot sales should surely be an additional treat that you know will give him pleasure. He sounds as if he is putting in enough effort and goodwill to earn the right to buy his own comic for himself each week.

victory wrote: »

Monthly allowance is a great idea but also from my part comes with a smidge of resentment because we are in effect handing him money for nothing, he needs to go out earn and spend to his desire not us keep him, as far as the sunday jobs they are a thank you for keeping me in clothes, food, rent free, giving me a landline, paying for me virgin media to watch tele etc, he has a good life just can't see it.

victory wrote:

No allowance, money here and there but no strict allowance, he does his sunday jobs, hoovering, dusting, windows, dishwasher etc, so does the little one always has done always will do, little one does it happily, eldest moaning but does it.

Young kids don't see the need to thank parents for keeping a roof over their heads. Why on earth should they? They had no say in being born. You brought him into the world, you are responsible for feeding, clothing, educating and all the rest of it until you have taught him to do that for himself. Ok, your 17 y/o is old enough to be able to appreciate these things, but your 11 y/o? Do you really think that your 11 y/o should not just pick up after himself but earn his keep?

Those Sunday chores sound like quite a long list of jobs. Is housework equally shared among all members of your household?

Had your oldest done his Sunday jobs well when he was younger and never been rewarded with an allowance so he could learn gradually about taking responsibility for money? Have you unwittingly taught him that no matter how hard he works there will be no reward for his efforts? If so you can hardly blame him for not bothering much now!

There is a lot of resentment in your posts Victory. How much of that has your son picked up. You have mentioned the decorating more than once, that was when he was 15 wasn't it? Do you ever forgive and forget any of his transgressions? What was he like at 11 years old?

You do not know for sure who sent the driving lessons text, yet you have decided that your son should be punished for it. At least check with the girlfriend's parents to see if there is any truth in it before resenting your son for the texts.

Your family income is above the level for your boy to get EMA, yet you say that there you cannot afford things for your sons, you do not let him be on a level playing field finacially with his friends who do get it? Your eldest has learned to trade, to barter, to track down things he can exchange, his only source of cash appears to be what he earns from his g/f's parents? He sounds very resourceful to me, especially at 17.

We really are only getting one side of this story, aren't we? How can your child know the value of things if he hasn't been taught? And surely that starts with teaching him the value of reward for effort.

This is the point of view of someone who throughout their teenage years had an unwell mum and a very hard working dad. It is so easy to take the efforts of a child for granted, and when you do, there is payback for the parents.

londoner1998

I have scanned through the thread so forgive me if what I am going to say doesn't go down well or has been said already... I don't get it: nothing you do for your son seems to be good enough. To anything offered, he says 'no'. Why do you continue enabling his behaviour? He wants a big present? He has to earn it. He wants a mobile phone? Ditto. And the way to earn it is:
A) get a job and pay for it himself
earning respect by helping you and his family around the house as well as fulfilling his duties, ie go to college, school or whatever and doing his (home)work.

If you keep playing into his hands, he will never understand what it means to really, really have no money/food/support. If he doesn't agree with your rules in the family home, he is old enough now to make his way into the big wide world. He is manipulatlng you because he knows he can.

We had a similar situation with my stepdaughter recently- her mother has spoiled her rotten and recently she started kicking up a fuss with her dad: 'this phone is S**t, this stinks you never have any money, I don't want to go/ clean/tidy up/get up from bed till midday, I won't go to your home unless your girlfriend leaves, she is always on my case (because I don't let her to get away with not cleaning or tidying up after herself)'Her dad, who is much calmer than I am and has a very good relationship with her most of the time, acted swiftly: took the phone away (I happily inherited it as it is super cheap), removed all privileges around the house (TV, Nintendo, iPod) and told her very clearly that she had been warned and obviously made a choice- these are the consequences. THat was it, no drama, no response to her tears, threats of never coming back, blackmail/ He spoke to her one and carried on what he said he would do. We continued our life as ormal and he said he would speak to her again when she calmed down and stopped screaming and stomping her feet. She spent a month and a half sulking (with her mum's help) but now, she is back on track, doing the homework and thinking twice before demanding more.

When I was 17- 18, back in Spain I started earning pocket money by teaching Enlgish and German privately. I also worked weekends, on and off in a club to get money to come to London on holiday with a friend one summer. Eventually, that meant I moved to london permanently, with the momeny I earned and saved. I didn't say anythign until I got the ticket, but scared and shocked as my Dad was , I know how proud it made him that I could pay my own way for my first adult holidays and then my move here.

If you continue in this line, letting him disturb the whole family dynamics, what example are you setting for your youngest? THink about it: you son has choices, and so do you.
Good luck, but please toughen up a bit... there are 18 years old (and much younger) children in the world with very serious responsibilities and no option of being so spoilt- he is privileged

londoner1998

victory wrote: »

HIS GF PARENTS 'pay him' for his work in the house, they feed him as a thank you, they have paid well the uncle did for his number for help the heroes half marathon, they donated a large pledge for his charity if he finishes the race, his gf has a students discount and will pay for him to buy a pair of jeans as a thank you for letting her keep the money for babysitting her cousins, one of his friends pays for his train ticket if he pays the football tickets which he got free from the sun newspaper, all done that way, nothing major but he gets by, like they say every little helps:D

Having seen this, it seems he responds well to incentives...I forgot to add, you need to look at your own behaviour as well and think hard about how this situation came to be..have you always communicated well?

mountainofdebt

Racyred

whilst I can understand the point you make, at what point in a child's life is it reasonable to expect them to help around the house and NOT get paid for it?

Junior is 18 and whilst he is a good lad - will do jobs around the house, including ironing, when I ask him to do it, but it would never occur to him to actually pick up an iron -unless of course it was something he needed ironing, lol!

At 18, they aren't children - they are young adults who , whilst not be able to appreciate the value of money unless they have been lucky (and I do think that 18 yr olds are lucky to get a job these days) to get a job and appreciate what it takes to earn that money, they are old enough to realise that a family is a mini co-co-perative and everyone needs to pull together.

As for making Victory feel guilty about earning so that her son doesn't EMA - what gives him the right to expect Victory to pay instead !!!!!!? Its an early lesson for him that life is unfair and he'd better get used to it.

londoner1998

victory wrote: »

Well no not actually mum in tow, what I meant was I would go on the bus with him into town find the boss of his gf or point him/her out and he take it from there, would never go into the interview room or anything like that:rotfl:

Are you serious? You need to let your son became an adult...