public gym showers

DVardysShadow

Emmzi wrote: »

I think that is quite aggressive. And doesn't help her if she is concerned about taking boys of that age into a naked lady area.

So the message I would take from that is "you are wrong and I think you are stupid." You also haven't explained there are mixed or cubicle areas, just that "this belongs to the men." Very territorial. There isn't actually any useful information in what you said.

I wouldn't co-operate with you. I'd feel awkward, but I wouldn't want to do anything to make you happy, and you haven't told me there is a mixed area. I'm still between a rock and a hard place.

A different approach would be, "Hi, look, we tend not to be comfortable having women in the men's communal area. I can see you have your hands full there with the boys - did you know there is a mixed area with cubicals just over there? Do you need a hand herding the guys over?" a) I know there is a better alternative b) you're helping not stomoing your feet at me c) you may even be smiling. I'd move.

You catch more wasps with honey than vinegar.

This does not need a different approach. The woman was on 'male' territory. And sauce for gees and ganders, what rules would apply to a male on 'female' territory?

Emmzi wrote: »

Well, now, I think you are exaggerating a bit to make an invalid point there, I'd say. There's been no suggestion so far that the woman was "watching", just that she was supervising the boys.

I think the OP has demonstrated consistently in his posts in this thread that he can act in an intolerant and aggressive way, and I am not surprised he didn't get a positive reaction.

I also think it's a storm in a tea cup and there are more important things to worry about.

Replies to this thread suggest there is no universally right or wrong answer here. Opinions differ, and that's fine.

Not for a woman to enter a male changing room. No criticism is justified of any male objecting anything short of violently

Emmzi wrote: »

Well in gender politics men are still in a position of greater power so the potential for abuse is generally greater, but that's a whole study module.

I think a bloke *lurking by the wall not staring at people* waiting for 5 8 year old girls might actually have been offered a hand by the other women there. That would match my experience of other mums, anyway.

Although I cannot recall seeing a man out on his own with that many children; maybe others have experience of that and can comment?

Adults are all vulnerable to accusations of peadophilia. Some respect should be shown for people using changing facilities. They should not be put in the position to fear for their own safety from malicious prosecution

mikey72

Emmzi wrote: »

Well in gender politics men are still in a position of greater power so the potential for abuse is generally greater, but that's a whole study module.

I think a bloke *lurking by the wall not staring at people* waiting for 5 8 year old girls might actually have been offered a hand by the other women there. That would match my experience of other mums, anyway.

Although I cannot recall seeing a man out on his own with that many children; maybe others have experience of that and can comment?

I guess from your very patronising response to my other post, you'd actually be screaming the place down in reallity.
You don't seee a man out on his own because we use common sense, and have a respect for others, that was clearly lacking here.
To remind you of why you don't see men arrogantly insisting they have a right to invade womens privacy.

mikey72 wrote: »

I used to have the same problem when I took my kids swimming. (girls)
I could imagine all the posters on here being happy if I stood watching them ( and their children) taking a shower.
Common sense prevailed, I used the unisex disabled shower and changing room, after asking the staff.
At that age though, they looked after each other.
(And for the record, a high proportion of p**ophiles are women)

mikey72

JCP wrote: »

I'm constantly on the other end of this problem at my local leisure centre (though not entirely in the same way).
We generally have one woman dragging 3 or 4 boys into the Ladies changing rooms to use the loos, because they don't want to leave them on their own and they refuse to leave - why the lazy mares don't take them specifically to the loos rather than the combination loo/changing room/showers I really don't know.
I've been made to feel uncomfortable by some of the comments the boys have made, and my friend's teenage daughters to the point that they've started crying - just what they need when they are already struggling with the changes their bodies are undergoing.

Do I have sympathy? I might for very young boys ie < 6yrs or so, but in general, no I don't. In at least one case, the boys ranged from about 8-9 to at least 12 (identified by the secondary school uniform being worn).
It is their problem which they choose to spread around instead of dealing with it themselves.

I've even had one of the women complain that I didn't have any clothes on when she came in!
When they are beyond stupid like that, what can you do? You certainly can't reason with them.

It's this whole stranger danger nonsense that everyone's bought into - 99% of peados operate within their own family - that's where the danger really lies.

I have to agree with you, some women have no respect for their gender, and teach their (male) children that women are second class, and it's perfectly ok to invade their privacy, and treat them with comtempt, so long as the boys are ok.

I would be quite happy for my kids to dial 999 and report them, as the mother appear to treat it as a non problem.
I posted this before, and I'm sure my daughter one day will actually do it. I'll also be quite happy to back her up over it.

mikey72 wrote: »

So what age do you think it's ok to take boys into the girls showers to.
Because my daughter is tempted to rip the b*lls off the next one watching her in a changing room getting dressed.

bestpud

JC9297 wrote: »

Just wondering who was actually swimming with the kids and where did they change, most pools say one adult can supervise up to two children up to eight years old.

I wondered that and the response that she didn't actually swim, means they must be at least 8 years old as most pools wouldn't accept them on their own below that age.

Personally, I think she was out of order and I'd ask the manager to decide where people can change and then train his staff to enforce it.

She should have been in a mixed changing area for swimmers, or failing that, she could have stood outside the door. No need for her to be stood over boys of that age - if they are responsible enough to be in the pool without a parent, they are responsible enough to dress alone.

No excuse about the locker fee as she wasn't swimming and could have put all their stuff in a bag and looked after it herself.

Ironically, she'd probably argue she was there to protect them from dodgy men!!

gratefulforhelp_2

dirtysexymonkey wrote: »

or the pool changing room, with its cubicles. which she had to walk through anyway. strange woman she was.

I expect she was just being thoughtless. I hope that's it.

Nicki

I'm a mum to 2 sons and 1 daughter. I would never ever go into the men's changing room with the boys, and I'd be majorly narked if a man came into the communal ladies with a daughter.

I have always brought the boys into the ladies with me until they were old enough to use the men's alone (which was about age 7 or 8). To begin with, I have told my sons they are to change quickly and to come out to the poolside as soon as they are ready not hang around. Also to use a cubicle if one is available, and if not to stand in the open part of the room, not in a corner where I think try would be more vulnerable.

If I did not think my child was able to change solo, and they were over this age, I would either use a disabled changing room (with consent) or go with an adult of the appropriate sex to supervise them. In this mothers shoes, I would definitely have used the pool changing rooms with lockers at £1 and can only assume she didn't know they existed, as otherwise her behaviour was bizarre in the extreme.

I would have been just as uncomfortable as OP if put in his position, and I think Emmzi's posts criticizing him for a natural reaction are just bizarre! Speaking as fully paid up feminist too

Rhiannon01

I think it's wrong, she shouldn't have been in the mens. I would have gone mad if a man was in the ladies at the gym. If she was worried about the kids seeing 'lady bits' then she should have got them to change at home, putting their clothes on over the top, then got them to shower at home. It's double standards, can't believe staff didn't do anything.

Changing subject slightly, when there is a male toilet attendant there is always a sign. When they go in to clean they are always shut down, while the male cleaner is there. If the woman had been a cleaner, I am sure it would not have been policy for her to go in & do her job. Nor in my belief is that woman entitled to use the male changing rooms even with a group of boys.

Of course it would have been easier if they had gone to the cubicles to change. Then if the unorganised woman didn't have any £ coins she could have taken their stuff with her while she watched them swimming or taken them to the women's changing room where the lockers are free & placed them there here self.

If women start doing that, men could say that was fine & do the same in the ladies changing rooms.

mikey72

Nicki wrote: »

............I have told my sons they are to change quickly and to come out to the poolside as soon as they are ready not hang around. Also to use a cubicle if one is available, and if not to stand in the open part of the room, not in a corner where I think try would be more vulnerable........................

I always tell my kids to look out for themselves, but at the end of the day, the changing room is full of normal, social, parents, as well as the imagined scum of society.
And nothing will happen that the rest of the changing room won't prevent. No-one will stand back and say nothing, the least that they'll do is get a member of staff in there.
I do find the woman's behaviour very bizarre, and do think she is perhaps the person they should be worried about.

Nicki

mikey72 wrote: »

I always tell my kids to look out for themselves, but at the end of the day, the changing room is full of normal, social, parents, as well as the imagined scum of society.
And nothing will happen that the rest of the changing room won't prevent. No-one will stand back and say nothing, the least that they'll do is get a member of staff in there.
.

I completely agree with this. If I thought the changing room was likely to have any !!!!!philes lurking I wouldn't send my young boys in at all.

The point about having them stand out in the main part of the room though is to be in plain sight, so that if there was anyone inclined to act inappropriately, they would be seen by the other men and stopped pronto. I don't really know the layout of men's locker rooms but my guess is that if you were a wierdo and wanted to do or say something nasty to a young child it would be easier if they were tucked into a corner where you might be able to frighten them unobserved by others, than out in the centre of the room.

Almost certainly an excess of caution, but we mums do worry about our little ones for a while. And living in London, I'm afraid I have been "flashed" twice, once on the street and once on the tube both times with other people around, so I am aware that a tiny minority of people are just weird in that way.

Crisp_£_note

Why couldnt the woman simply stand outside the male changing rooms and wait? The point I still really dont understand is why she didnt use the swimming pool changing area if they went swimming?
I also cant understand how they were allowed to use the pool together without an adult supervision at that age. Lifeguards are there to protect lives not to be child minders (I speak from experience as I used to be a lifeguard) adult supervision should be in the pool with the child/ren not from the poolside seating area or cafe.