Is this how life is meant to be?

3v3

paddy's_mum wrote: »

3v3 - I do actually agree with you but when ordinary folk hear of something so unfair and blatantly vile (and the OP's words have that indefinable ring of honesty about them that experienced posters somehow just sense is truthful) it's very hard indeed not to react and think evil, hexing, karma-ish thoughts about the perpetrator...

Yeah, I get that I do not doubt the integrity of the OP

Yes, of course it is hard, particularly when a reader has personal experiences to draw upon which may/may not colour their judgement. ( I know it! I have personal experiences of my own to draw upon - but, I'm also aware that can create a bias which makes objectivity a little more difficult; yet, in fairness, while appreciating the stresses of the circumstances the OP is facing, my personal experiences are not the same and it would be wrong, just plain wrong, to impose my experiences onto her partner. On the contrary, experience (both personal and professional) has given me the ability to distance my personal experiences from blatant bias).

The main point of my post is to remind people that, while jumping on the "outragious!" bandwagon, the language they use to describe the "partner", while it may *feel* justifiable (and I don't dispute that!), lacks a degree of perspective. The person they describe is, not only the person the OP chose to spend intimate times with but, also the father of her child. In addition, while it is easy to jump on the sexist bandwagon of man=bad guy, it loses the fact that the man may also have "problems" of his own. Our society is geared towards pity toward the female, yet, the OP's partner may well be a victim of a dysfunctional upbringing. It does not mean his behaviour is acceptable - it isn't! - but, maybe he doesn't know that? Maybe, just maybe, his son will display the same tendancies? After all, he is half his father's DNA and a good portion of his perception of how "daddy does things".

Judge the behaviour, not the person That is my point! His behaviour may well be perceived as "vile" by some people (unless they have experienced worse, then it becomes a matter of "degree"), but, that does not (necessarily!) make him a vile "person". There is a difference.

claire16c

3v3 wrote: »

No offense to the people who posted the above quotes, because it really is an emotive subject (nor am I sticking up for the OP's partner here!) but, please, do remember, the person the OP is speaking about is, in fact, the father of her youngest child? A child who shares 50% DNA with the person you so easily and readily describe as "vile ... disgusting parasite ... lowlife".

We can all form an opinion on his behaviour and respond accordingly; but, we do not know the man. He certainly has issues, but, we don't know why he is the way he is: learned behaviour? Mental health issues? Abusive family background? Who knows? *We* don't! Resorting to quick fire insults demeans the poster, not the person being posted about.

Clearly the OP didn't find him so "vile" or she wouldn't have had a child with him; there was a point where the OP didn't (and maybe still doesn't?) view him as a "disgusting parasite" - she had a child with him; and the OP didn't view him as a "lowlife", she still had a child with him That child is as much in her heart as her other child. And that same child, is half the genetics of her and his father. She may not have loved him, but, she didn't find him repulsive either.

The OP has certainly been through a very tough learning curve and has my (albeit virtual) support and backing in her endeavours to end this relationship - but, judge his behaviour, not the person. By making such sweeping statements about the man, you taint the child. That child is the OP's "baby"

His behaviour is totally unacceptable and disfunctional, but, that doesn't make him beyond redemption (if he so chooses to seek it! Even if that is unlikely). Even if he corrected his behaviour, it is far too late in the day to rectify the relationship which is the topic of this thread and the main purpose of this thread isn't to chuck insults around, but to support the OP with helpful advice about where to go from here

GlynD - totally agree; most decent men would feel as you do the OP's partner *is* being mentally cruel, not just to her, but to the children too; he is playing power games (which is the essence of bullying behaviour!) andthe OP and her children deserve better.

I can see what youre trying to say but to be honest the reasons for him acting in this awful way are completely irrelevant. Plenty of people have abusive childhoods but dont grow up to be like this. There is NO excuse.

And I dont see how any of this is tainting their child. The child has no control over how the 'father' is acting.

3v3

claire16c wrote: »

I can see what youre trying to say but to be honest the reasons for him acting in this awful way are completely irrelevant. Plenty of people have abusive childhoods but dont grow up to be like this. There is NO excuse.

And I dont see how any of this is tainting their child. The child has no control over how the 'father' is acting.

The reasons why he acts like this may not be relevant to you or the OP, or to the readers: however, to say they are "irrelevant" misses the human aspect of things If he were an abused child, surely that does have some relevance? "Plenty" may well grow up with no adverse effects; I would challenge that "most" of them have no adverse affects

Yes, people do indeed grow up in abusive households and "appear" to circumvent this; to say there is "NO excuse" is misguided and somewhat, naive? But, that is your opinion, and I respect that it is different from my own

How does it "taint their child"? Well, the child is witnessing this behaviour from day 1. From the child's perspective, the environment it grows up in is "the norm". Equally, the child will inherit certain traits from both parents: be that the "softness" approach to life of the mother, or, the "manipulative" traits of the father. Obviously the child has no "control" over how the father is acting, but, the child will have certain propensities coupled with learned behaviour. They are not mutually exclusive.

Money_maker

Appreciate your posts 3v3 but will absolutely not retract my opinion on this lowlife and find it rather reinforced given further posts from the OP about his behaviour (yes, I said behaviour) over the children.

This thread is not really about discussion and analysing the behaviour of this individual. It's about giving the OP the strength and practical advice to try to escape from her terrible situation. There are no excuses to treat another human (or animal) in this manner and there are no reasons why the OP needs to endure it given that she is understandably unhappy.

yoni_one

Hi Daisy

Just read your posts and skimmed over some of the really supportive replies, you seem to be growing strong here and taking back some control, well done you.

I work for Women's Aid and so so much of his behaviour that you describe is very classic domestic abuse yet you are not alone in it taking a long time to even begin to recognise it for what it actually is. When an abuser sprinkles their behaviour with a the occasional dose of Mr Charming it gives us a glimpse of the type of person we want them to be full time, so deep down we believe that fundamentally they are a good person and that it is up to us to make sure we keep them that way, so if they stop being Mr Charming and become nasty it is because we have failed, and they do a very good job of convincing us that we actually deserve what we get for not being the perfect partner all the time. And we are so busy wondering what the hell we did wrong and how we can avoid it in the future that we forget to even consider their part in it all.

Falling in to this pattern means it can kind of creep up on us and before we know it, we learn to quickly blame ourselves for turning this 'decent charming person' in to a moody, angry, bully so it is little wonder that we begin to lose confidence in ourselves and quickly feel nervous around them - we have no idea how it came to this so how do start to plan a way out? And of course all of these negative feelings we aim at ourselves are effectively validated by them when they remind us how stupid we are when we don't get it. So we begin to believe it yet more and more and eventually forget to even question it. It is so easy to end up trapped in this cycle.

Once you get a support worker from Women's Aid or one of the other appropriate services they should begin to help you work through all of this, but first and foremost they can really help you properly plan ahead, making sure you fully assess and manage any risks you may identify as you plan what you want to do.

I'm going to pm you with some simple suggestions around keeping safe now. Your confidence is building which is great but you still need to keep your eye on the ball.

Just one more thing, I am a firm believer of using accountable language (to ourselves at least), this helps remind of us exactly who is responsible for what. The term abusive relationship is used so often but to say that one is in an abusive relationship implies that both parties are abusive. I have read all that you have told us about his behaviour and I would put money on it that it really doesn't even scrape the sides of all of his emotional, psychological, financial and sexual abuse towards you over the years. So, no, the relationship is NOT abusive - he is. You are in a relationship with an abusive man and simply by seeking help, you have already taken a huge step towards taking back power and control of you.

Please feel free to pm me if you want to discuss anything away from the forum.

Take care x

3v3

Money_maker wrote: »

...
This thread is not really about discussion and analysing the behaviour of this individual. It's about giving the OP the strength and practical advice to try to escape from her terrible situation. There are no excuses to treat another human (or animal) in this manner and there are no reasons why the OP needs to endure it given that she is understandably unhappy.

Yes, this thread is indeed about empowering the OP to find the strength, and offer any practical advice, to escape from her situation: in that we are in total agreement I have offered both

I have not said the OP needs to endure anything!

However, we will agree to disagree that there are "no excuses" - there can be For you, perhaps not; for me, yes, because I keep an open mind on the human condition.

I reiterate: his behaviour is unacceptable; however, making sweeping (insulting!) statements is non-productive, unless to make the poster feel empowered? You called him a "disgusting parasite": harsh words! That "disgusting parasite" is the father of the OP's child. Her child may inherit the "gambling" gene We can't know (yet!) whether that will hold true. Do you think the OP, in years to come, will view her child as a "disgusting parasite" if he becomes a compulsive gambler? Of course she won't!! She'll look for compassion and understanding.

Your most interesting comparison began with putting the dog before the children! Curious indeed

Any thread which compares a person's behaviour (be it the OP or the non-speaking accused) will cause debate on the behaviour and analysis of both.

You made a judgement based on a one-sided argument; while I do agree the OP deserves better treatment, I will not slate the father of her child in order to get my point across to disengage from the relationship! Manipulative behaviour he may have; hang, draw and quarter him based on a post on an anonymous forum I will not! There are two sides to every story and to ignore that he may have his own issues, is simply bloody minded.

Molly41

It is good to see you empowered and long may it continue x

Lotus-eater

3v3 wrote: »

Judge the behaviour, not the person That is my point! His behaviour may well be perceived as "vile" by some people (unless they have experienced worse, then it becomes a matter of "degree"), but, that does not (necessarily!) make him a vile "person". There is a difference.

This just jumped out at me, I don't at all want to get into anything like an argument on this thread. But seriously? How would you describe a vile person then, if not by their deeds?
He's a vile manipulating !!!!!!, he's also very calculating.

daisy85

First of all Thank You for everyone's replies, i am so grateful of all the help and support that you have all given me

Well, he hasnt come back so far, I haven't seen him since yesterday morning and that is making me feel rather nervous in itself. I'm actually sat thinking 'what did I do wrong?' I cant remember. I hate feeling like this.

I realise I am going to have a lot of strength to get over the next few weeks, I have no doubt in my mind that he will start walking past my house, standing outside the windows etc to see if I have a man in there with me. I also think he will try to get in the house using the excuse that his son lives here and he has a right to see him.

Unfortunately I haven't got any childcare sorted out for when I return to Uni, DS2 starts nursery in November so I am hoping family can help out dropping him off or picking him up. I am hopefully going to try and get my seminars in at the time he is at Nursery. Also I have enlisted the help of SureStart via my Health Visitor but I am still waiting on the outcome of whether they can help me or not. Its small barriers like childcare that seem huge but aren't much when you break them down into chunks.

I am ringing Womens Aid today to see if they can help me, even if they can just give me some advice on support thats out there it will be fantastic. Im sure they have heard stories like mine a hundred times before. Hopefully they wont tell me to get lost for making a mountain out of a molehill and wasting their time.

Lotus-eater

Of course they won't tell you to get lost, they are there for people in need like yourself.

Have you asked a family member to stay with you?