MSE Parent Club

SusanCarter

Yes it's elimination communication we do with Alice. There's some info on Wilkipedia about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_communication
I found out about it via a link from a huge pregnancy thread on OS.

Here is my best attempt at summarising it:

Babies are born aware of their elimination (wees and poos). They naturally prefer not to eliminate into what they are wearing but because in our culture, it is the norm to put babies in nappies, they learn to eliminate in their nappy and ignore the sensations of needing or going to the toilet. With conventional nappying they then relarn this awareness when they are toilet trained. This is why a newborn baby will frequently wee when you take their nappy off to change it but as they get older they don't do this as often it they are nappied in a conventional way.

In most of the developing world, people cannot afford nappies (if they even know they exist). Instead, when the baby needs to eliminate, they are held over an appropriate receptacle or other suitable location. There are differnet ways of knowing when the baby needs to eliminate. For example, most babies will wee just after waking. Also, when a baby is feeding, they will usually stop feeding when they need to eliminate. These two were the easiest ways that we have known that Alice needs the toilet. Even at a few days old, she would stop feeding after say ten or fifteen minutes and we would find she needed the toilet. She would then carry on feeding afterwards. She still does this although she does not need to stop as frequently. Early on she would often have a wet/dirty nappy and use the toilet whereas now she would tend to either have a wet nappy or do it in the toilet. There can be other signs that the baby needs the toilet such as squirming or fussing. If Alice wakes up crying in the middle of a nap it usually means she needs a wee or has a wet nappy. Also, you can learn over time when your baby usually needs the toilet so for example I know that after Alice's afternoon feed she is likely to need the toilet much more frequently (say 20-25 minutes for the first couple of wees) than she does in the morning (usually about 45 minutes). Another way people know their baby needs the toilet is "intuition". When I read about this I was fairly dubious and I didn't believe in "phantom wees" (where you feel like the baby has weed on you just before they do a wee. It hasn't happened many times but there have been three occasions when I have been on the computer with Alice on my knee and I have not been thinking about her whne I have felt a warm sensation on my knee (the same as I feel if she wets her nappy on my knee) and when I took her to the toilet she had a dry nappy and did a wee immediately on the toilet. Also one time recently at church, I was standing up holding her while we sang a hymn and just before we finished singing, I felt like water was spilling out of her plastic pants (a bit like when you are holding a full cup and you forget about it until suddenly you realsie you are spilling it). Obviously there wasn't water pouring out of her plastic pants but OH took her to the toilet and she had a dry nappy and did a wee.

Another thing you do is that from early on, whenever you know the baby is eliminating regardless of where they are doing it you make a "cueing" sound (usually a ssssssssss sound although it varies in different cultures which do it traditionally). Over time, the baby learns to assosciate the sound with eliminating so then you can make the sound when you offer the baby the toilet. This helps them to know that they are in an appropriate place to eliminate and if they need to then they will (although sometimes you will mistakenly take them to the toilet when they don't need it).

Although you can do it without using nappies at all, you will inevitably have "misses" and in our culture (and particularly if you live in a carpeted rented house!) this isn't always the best way so many people use nappies (either disposable or cloth with or without covers) as back up so that when they miss, it is a nappy rather than a puddle on the floor. Personally, we have Alice wearing nappies most (but not all) of the time as we feel it is more practical to be washing the nappies. We use muslins because she only ever does one wee in them so it is not worth having her wearing a big nappy which would take loads of washing.

I hope my explanation makes sense (I'm afraid it's a little rambling) and feel free to ask for further explanation/clarification.

Snaggles

Gosh Susan, thanks very much for typing all that - that's a fantastic explanation and really interesting. I quite often think that Natasha knows when she is about to go, so I wonder if this would work for her.

Did you start from birth? Am I too late now that she's 7 months old?

SusanCarter

We have a travel system given to us by someone who was given too many who my brother knows. So far we have only used it for Alice to sit in when I was doing things in the kitchen before she was big enough for the high chair. (She also used it to watch OH hang out the washing but it's too cold for that now.) We were also lent an old pram (my mum said it's just like what she had for me) which I used to use to take Alice for a walk once a day while she had a nap but I only did that for about three months. Other than that, we have just used a sling (and leave the carseat in the car). I know some people reckon it's more convenient lifting the carseat with the baby in rather than lifting out the baby but personally I prefer just lifting the baby (we also only have a 3 door car which would make lifting a carseat even harder). I also personally think it's much easier to get around shops etc with a baby in a sling than in some kind of travel system/pushchair.

fac in answer to you question, we don't "babywear" but we do use a sling mainly as a portable pushchir/cot when we are out but early on we also used it quite a lot if Alice was crying/couldn't sleep and nothing else seemed to be wrong.

SusanCarter

Snaggles wrote: »

Did you start from birth? Am I too late now that she's 7 months old?

Yes we started from four days but you can start later. They do say it's easiest if you start before six months but you can start any time. It's usually callet "late start" if you start after six months and there is a yahoo support group for late starters here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IPTLateStarters/
I'm a member of the "ecuk" group and have found it really helpful for getting support as it's not like other aspects of parenting where there are loads of people around you doing the same thing.

SusanCarter

Snaggles wrote: »

I quite often think that Natasha knows when she is about to go, so I wonder if this would work for her.

She may well know. I read this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Diaper-free-Baby-Training-Alternative-Healthier/dp/0061229709/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196691225&sr=8-1 by Christine Gross-Loh and she started with her first son when he was one. She didn't do it intentionally but her mother had sent her a potty so she sat her son on it just because she thought he might look cute sitting on it and he promptly used it so she carried on and he kept using it.

heather38

i watched a program on elimination ages ago, it was on channel 4 i think, quite interesting.
well ladies DH and i had 'relations' at last, i just jumped on him, it's not the same as before as i has a 2nd degree tear and loads of stiches, but i'll have to get used to it!
kennedy stood on her own for the first time and fed herself her wheatabix this morning. it's the first time i've let her feed herself sloppy food she did ok, not too much on the carpet!

Becles

I've entered my baby in a competition to be the face of Huggies nappies

If you've got a minute to spare, please could you vote for Charlotte. She's on this page:
http://www.bounty.com/babyphoto/browse.asp?btysc=2&btyCurrentPage=38

Thanks very much xx

Snaggles

Oh lol, I entered that too - but I've lost the email and no idea how to find Natasha! Oh well!!

Edit - found her on page five hundred and something! :rotfl:

Lu_T

Imogen is currently refusing to eat unless she feeds herself. I was hoping to tackle feeding after Xmas (and after she's 1!) but she's made her own mind up. We now do a bit of a dance with two spoons. She's getting pretty good at putting the spoon in the bowl and then getting it in her mouth, but I still have to supplement it with my spooning some in. We're trying harder to give her finger foods too, but I'm never very inspired about what to give her!

Becles - I voted for Charlotte, very cute!

SusanCarter

I've voted for Charlotte too. We've been weaning Alice with finger foods. So far we've given her parsnip, onion and sourdough bread all cut into roughly chip shape/size.

EDIT: we gave her some lamb today and it was her favourite so far. It seemed to be better because it didn't break up in her hand while she was holding it like the other stuff tends to.