help...water bill is £4000 a year.

buglawton

um so the Water co was removing evidence for any future court case!

mart.vader

finlander wrote: »

just an update.... its been a while now and our account is still suspended as the investigation is ongoing.. things are getting a little confusing let me explain;-

It seems to me they are floundering around for an answer but what concerns me is that if my old meter is just tossed on a heap of old meters how can I ever prove it may have been defective? even if it is found say in a months time and tested that test can hardly be forensic in any way as anything could have happened to it in the meantime.


your views are welcome...................

Hi, Finlander,

It seems to me you are being given some incorrect info.

Firstly, OFWAT will NOT under any circumstances get involved with a local dispute. They will tell you, (as they told me) they just set the amount that Water Co.s can charge consumers, and the WC's report their leakage figures to them.

CCW are - in my experience - completely toothless. They will tell you that they have an advisory role, with no powers to compel a water company to do anything at all. (In my complaint against a different Water Co., CCW asked the Water Co to reconsider it's decision, the Water Co. said "NO", - and that was the end of CCW's involvement !) However, you might have more luck.

If I was in your position, I would ask the Water Co to supply me with a copy of their plans of their apparatus in your street/road. They are required by law to have these plans and keep them (more or less ) up-to-date. You don't need to make a Freedom of Info request. WC's supply these as a matter of course, to developers, to councils, other utility Cos. to avoid hitting water-mains during excavations, the Fire Brigade and others. (I suggest you get the plan so you can satisfy yourself that there are no other properties likely to be feeding off your supply.)

When you get the plan you will see the water main marked on plan as a heavy line along the road or pavement and the Hydrants are generally marked as circles. Note:- this shows only the Water Main, not the individual supplies. If as you say you live in a country area, it will be either 3" or 4" (100mm) in diameter - the individual supplies to properties come off this main probably at right angles (but will not be marked on the plan) Your supply obviously passes under where your meter is and is probably 20mm in diameter (ie. about 3/4"). I spent many years drawing up these plans for a Water Co.

You say that you have no close neighbours who might have their supply feeding off your supply after the meter, so that is not the problem. It's pretty unlikely that your supply is in any way connected to the pumping station opposite. (unless your location is extremely odd)

The only solution that I can suggest is meter over-reading. AFAIK it only happens when a property is situated at the brow of a hill or at an abrupt change in gradient. It CAN cause a spike in consumption, when air builds up in the water main, and is only able to vent through your supply. - If you have the "old-fashioned" set-up, ie storage tank in the loft, you would not even notice it, all that would happen is that lots of air would come out of the ball-valve in the tank, while your meter spins frantically, clocking up non-existent usage.

Water Co's will not admit that this ever happens, and your WC may not even be aware it is possible. When your meter is removed and tested, of course, it will show no fault, but the link to it is here.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/38974932#Comment_38974932

Good Luck !

finlander

mart.vader wrote: »

Hi, Finlander,

It seems to me you are being given some incorrect info.

Firstly, OFWAT will NOT under any circumstances get involved with a local dispute. They will tell you, (as they told me) they just set the amount that Water Co.s can charge consumers, and the WC's report their leakage figures to them.

CCW are - in my experience - completely toothless. They will tell you that they have an advisory role, with no powers to compel a water company to do anything at all. (In my complaint against a different Water Co., CCW asked the Water Co to reconsider it's decision, the Water Co. said "NO", - and that was the end of CCW's involvement !) However, you might have more luck.

If I was in your position, I would ask the Water Co to supply me with a copy of their plans of their apparatus in your street/road. They are required by law to have these plans and keep them (more or less ) up-to-date. You don't need to make a Freedom of Info request. WC's supply these as a matter of course, to developers, to councils, other utility Cos. to avoid hitting water-mains during excavations, the Fire Brigade and others. (I suggest you get the plan so you can satisfy yourself that there are no other properties likely to be feeding off your supply.)

When you get the plan you will see the water main marked on plan as a heavy line along the road or pavement and the Hydrants are generally marked as circles. Note:- this shows only the Water Main, not the individual supplies. If as you say you live in a country area, it will be either 3" or 4" (100mm) in diameter - the individual supplies to properties come off this main probably at right angles (but will not be marked on the plan) Your supply obviously passes under where your meter is and is probably 20mm in diameter (ie. about 3/4"). I spent many years drawing up these plans for a Water Co.

You say that you have no close neighbours who might have their supply feeding off your supply after the meter, so that is not the problem. It's pretty unlikely that your supply is in any way connected to the pumping station opposite. (unless your location is extremely odd)

The only solution that I can suggest is meter over-reading. AFAIK it only happens when a property is situated at the brow of a hill or at an abrupt change in gradient. It CAN cause a spike in consumption, when air builds up in the water main, and is only able to vent through your supply. - If you have the "old-fashioned" set-up, ie storage tank in the loft, you would not even notice it, all that would happen is that lots of air would come out of the ball-valve in the tank, while your meter spins frantically, clocking up non-existent usage.

Water Co's will not admit that this ever happens, and your WC may not even be aware it is possible. When your meter is removed and tested, of course, it will show no fault, but the link to it is here.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/38974932#Comment_38974932

Good Luck !

that all souunds a bit complicated but the problem to me is this

1. I dont live on a hill or near a gradiant
2. All the employees I have spoken to have said that 15000 in 12 hours is ridiculous
3. Isnt it just possible that the meter is knackered. imstaed of all the air lock stuff it just sometines clicks over a 100th unit instaed opf one? who knows?..not me because the meter has now gone.
4. I live on a road that has fields backing off of the rear of the property. The house was 3 farm cottages knocked together. Even the water co have admitted that it is poss that a privately laid supply may ahve been put in without there knowledge. after all meters are rel new and before that water rates were the norm. so as the farmer was paying he would be quite within his rights to connect his properties up as he wished. If thats the case this supply could be attached at a water tank to fill up vehicles for spraying land after harvesting. that would explain 15000 ltrs in one night.
5. the company are trying but my concern is that with the meter gone If the prob was there they have now taken the evidence.
6. I dont know if the ccw or ofwat are any good but I am prepared to goto court if needed to get this sorted and a rebate if due. Even the WC manger stated that they have a moral and proffessional duty to ensure that if they connect a meter it only monitors one house.

Fred_Bear_2

Quote:
Originally Posted by energysavingexp
if i was paying £4000 per year
the first thing i would do is
if the meter is fitted in the street ok. to see if there are any branch pipes running off your pipe i would go on ebay and buy a water meter for about £10 then i would fit it after your stoptap in your kitchen about 1hrs work then take the reading from the meter in the street and wright it down take the reading from the new meter in the kitchen then every day check each meter and if they read the same ammount but show a high reading then you have used the water some where in your house but if the readings show different consumption on the meters then it looks like you have a branch pipe

finlander wrote: »

ilike thatb idea... alot... that seems a good way of proving another supply...cheers and well done

Three people have now suggested that you could fit your own meter. Any progress on this?

finlander

theres no point at the moment. The Wc are so confused that they have offered to do just that. They say that the new m,eter is outside on the pavement and they are currently getting permission to fit a second meter in side the house. This apparently has never been done by them so they have to get permission.

I pointed out however that if the water is being taken in large quantities at irregular times then they woul have to monitor it for a very long time. They agreed that they would.

mart.vader

OK, Finlander, you don't live on a hill or near a gradient, so you can forget about air in the water-main.

You say the supply could be attached to a water-tank - this tank should be fairly visible, can you see any evidence of this? Have you contacted whoever has access to the fields ie the farmer, and asked where he gets water for those fields from?

While the WC are monitoring, you could ask them to only charge you the estimated average amount for a property of the size of your house, they might do this until the matter is sorted out, as even they admit that you are not actually using the amount that is showing on your meter.

As for the monitoring for a long time. they could attach a data logger to the supply, which would record flows and pressures. When I used to use them they would run for a month at a time, but I don't know if they can be set to run for longer.

In lots of areas, it is quite common to fit the meter inside the house, eg mine is in my house.

Sorry, I can't think of any other solutions

Gothicfairy

OFWAT do get involved in local problems..That is what they are there for, it might just be that in your case they can't see a cause ?

It is still more likely that this supply is also supplying a trough or 3 but as all suggestions are either being done or are on hold there is little more anyone can do until the water company finish whatever it is they are doing.

notbritishgas

Hi Finlander
I have been following your thread since you started it but have not commented until now!
If indeed your meter also feeds a farm, then as well as filling tanks for spraying etc there may also be a tap for washing their wellies or filling the kettle.
This will involve a bit of work by you but whenever you are out why not turn the water off at the meter, if the farmer cannot get his tea then you may hear of it.

greenval

I had similar problems but not on the same scale (your bill for 2mths usage is................£600!)
Ofwat did help. I live in a terrace of cottages and they had put the meter on the common supply, it took 18mths for them to figure that out.

Hope you get it sorted.

MX5huggy

Findlander,

It seems the WC are now at least taking you seriously, remember they can't prove a negative, ie they can't prove that no one else is connected to your supply.

But you see men in the street with these for detecting pipes, http://www.hss.com/index.php?g=49514#SpecificationTitle

I would hire one and have a good walk round your property with a spade in the other hand and find this pipe that is stealing your water.