help...water bill is £4000 a year.

Timman

finlander wrote: »

does anyone

1. Know what this 'black box ' is they talking talking about

2. know that if they just say investigation over ..if I have a right to insist on going onto an assesssed charge due to the high water usage and the inability of the water company to account for it.

The 'black box' isn't a standard industry term. If they mentioned it in the context of a pump station, I suspect that they are going to wire up the control panel for the pumps (or the pumps and level/pressure recorders) so that they can remotley monitor the station from their desktop. They could also be talking about your flow meter too, so that if a spike occurs they get alerted to the fact straight away to go and have a look.



For the assessed charge - no you don't have a "right" unless there has been case law I don't know about.

I have had a thought, which I'll get back to you on tomorrow. Did you say earlier that the electronic meter recorded the spike or the mechanical meter?

finlander

Timman wrote: »

The 'black box' isn't a standard industry term. If they mentioned it in the context of a pump station, I suspect that they are going to wire up the control panel for the pumps (or the pumps and level/pressure recorders) so that they can remotley monitor the station from their desktop. They could also be talking about your flow meter too, so that if a spike occurs they get alerted to the fact straight away to go and have a look.



For the assessed charge - no you don't have a "right" unless there has been case law I don't know about.

I have had a thought, which I'll get back to you on tomorrow. Did you say earlier that the electronic meter recorded the spike or the mechanical meter?

the meter is mechanical and just recorded the amount of water went through. for instance it recorded that 16 cubic meters were used in the one month... the flow meter is elctronic and measured what flowed through and more impotantly when. so it recorded say 16 cubic meters over the month but also recorded that this bit went at 1930hrs when a tap was probably used etc....and most importantly that between 1900hrs on the 9th june till 0900hrs on the 10th june 14 cubic meters went through on a consant flow.......hope that helps:(

Fred_Bear_2

finlander, You have been charged £4000 each year for four years. Ignoring the standing charge, at £1.80 per cubic metre, that's 2222 cubic metres or 185 cubic metres each month. But when the flowmeter was connected it only recorded about 16 cubic metres for the month. Why was this month so different from the previous 48 months? That's the question I would want answering.

finlander

Fred_Bear wrote: »

finlander, You have been charged £4000 each year for four years. Ignoring the standing charge, at £1.80 per cubic metre, that's 2222 cubic metres or 185 cubic metres each month. But when the flowmeter was connected it only recorded about 16 cubic metres for the month. Why was this month so different from the previous 48 months? That's the question I would want answering.

sorry ...16 cubic meters was just a example figure to show how the flow meter checks the proper meter. .. I cant remember how much our consumption is at the mo but apart from the spike it is average according to the man at the water company.

remember the £4000 includes the sewerage charge fron anglian water which is worked out using the amount of water shown used by essex and suffolk.

I think from memory that the sewerage is actually higher per unit than the water itself so quite a bit of the £4000 is processing the waste water used.

also there is standing charges etc in that £4000...

the £4000 is an approx but we are spending on direct debit about £300 a month for the water and the sewerage together.....

Fred_Bear_2

Ok, that does make a difference. New calculation:

£4000 less £83.70 standing charge = £3916.30 / 2.86 (£1.37 water + £1.49 sewerage) = 1369 cubic metres = 114 cubic metres per month.

This month: 9 cubic metres average usage (145 x 30 x 2 /1000) + 14 cubic metre spike = 23 cubic metres.

Not so dramatic but still a large drop I think.

allybee101

The 'black box' is probably flow monitoring equipment of some sorts. Remote pumping stations are on telemetry for things like pumps breaking down. This means that a signal is sent to the local control centre and they can send out an engineer if there's a problem. This should already be in place (condition of most permits these days)

However some sites also have flow monitoring equipment to record the flows through the works. They might be adding something to this to log data over a period of time if the current equipment only shows the instantaneous measurements.

Good news that they're finally looking into it properly! Keep the pressure on them and if you can speak to them in person when they're fitting the new meter they might be able to tell you more. Offer the engineer a cuppa and a biscuit and it's amazing what information they'll pass on

finlander

very true.... both the last two readings have dropped quite dramaticly as far as I know.

since the flow meter was fitted really... If I was cynical I would be tempted to say that something has been fiddled with... when the first flow meter test came in and I asked how come it showed much less than we were using before I was accused of having a leak which had been mended. quite frankly I found that amusing because if I had a leak I wouldnt have had any spare cash to get it mended after paying the water bill.

Thats why they then fitted the meter for a month... because the drop in consumption couldnt be explained. Now that second test showed the 14 meter spike but nothing else.

thats why Im confused ........... none of this makes sense. I was quite prepared for them to say that I had a leak but they are sure ..and so am I because I have done the tests ... that there is absolutely no leak in the house.............so where has all the past water gone and why has it dropped now ..etc etc .......

abbecer

Not surprised you are so stressed Finlander! In our previous house we had a massive leak underneath the drive that filled halfway up the cellar wall. This continued for two years until the insurance company paid and sorted it (we absolutely couldn't fund it ourselves). Luckily we weren't on a water meter so although stressful wondering if damage was being done to the foundations, constantly on the phone etc there weren't any real financial implications. In our current home we are on a water meter and pay £30 per month. We are a family of four with shower, washer going constantly, veg patch to water. We do have some water saving devices ie water saver in shower head, eco washer, toilet hippo bags etc. Your bill is very excessive and I don't know how they could really reason that you would have used so much. Hope you finally get somewhere and this matter is resolved. Let us know how you get on.

Rebecca x

finlander

just an update.... its been a while now and our account is still suspended as the investigation is ongoing.. things are getting a little confusing let me explain;-

1. they said they were going to instal another flow meter for a month and we kept a water diary. However it now turns out they nevr in stalled one so the water diary is useless
2. we caught them changing the meter the other day for a new one!
3. when i spoke to e&s they said they had installed a new meter to ensure that the readings were correct. I asked them how this would prove that and they said they didnt know! I then asked what would happen to the old meter and again they said 'I dont know'.
4. I asked how any of this would prove the old meter was defective and again they didnt know.
5. lastly they said they may instal another meter in the house so they can see if there is a difference between one ijn the street and the water in the house. I agreed as I want this sorted and dont want to hinder the investigation but did ask that if a farmer was on the same pipe as me and was filling his tanks for spraying only 5 times a year but say in the summer how long will this monitoring have to go on... they said 'yes good point' ( bearing in mind we are approaching winter it might be another 8 months before 15000 litres go missing again).

It seems to me they are floundering around for an answer but what concerns me is that if my old meter is just tossed on a heap of old meters how can I ever prove it may have been defective? even if it is found say in a months time and tested that test can hardly be forensic in any way as anything could have happened to it in the meantime.


your views are welcome...................

blue_monkey_2

I have been following this, is it not that the old meter is defective, but that you need a meter where the water enters the house, not on the road. So the old meter will not show anything will it?

I know nothing about this, can you fit one yourself or get a plumber to fit one at point of entry (just outside your house), and then you'll have the evidence you need (possibly, or it would be a start so you could fight it).