Narcisism!

melanzana

meritaten wrote: »

it was bad judgement on the part of the counsellor to tell your friend about her own loss.
BUT - in some circumstances it is very helpful. I used to work for a cancer charity and all Therapists (I was actually the Reiki Therapist) were required to take counselling qualifications.
TBH - most if not all clients were aware that nearly all the 'volunteers', be they Counsellors or Therapists had lost family members to cancer.
but, I do not think its particularly helpful to 'share the grief'. that isn't what a counsellor is for. The focus is ALWAYS on the client. we weren't told not to tell clients - but I didn't feel it was encouraged.

Thanks.

The problem is that empathy is good, but not if one's own issues colour the counselling provided for others.

I think in many cases it might.

That is what I meant about professionals entering the sphere, maybe for that reason?

I personally would not use a counsellor. YET! Never say never... I have a bereavement issue myself. Hand on heart. So I don't know. Would never close a door that might help.

meritaten

aarrgghhh - lost my post there just as I pressed reply!

I was saying that most people enter counselling in order to help others going through a 'similar' process.
but, we should always be aware that 'similar' is not the 'same'. everyone is different.
I know that some of the qualified counsellors in the charity I worked for were absolutely brilliant - one or two were maybe not quite up to scratch.
for myself - although I had to take the counselling courses, my work was as a Reiki Therapist. and my policy was to keep MY life out of the Reiki room. The focus is ALWAYS the client. Unless I was asked directly I wouldn't mention the Uncles or FIL or MIL or BIL I lost to cancer within the space of ten years - and which prompted me to offer my services as a volunteer.

andygb

poet123 wrote: »

It is important to distinguish between those who have narcissistic personality traits and those suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. Having some of the former does not mean you have the latter.

ETA less than 1% of us have this disorder, and the vast majority are men.

So, bearing in mind your last point, and the information which I have given on this thread, would you consider that my sister has NPD, or maybe because you are of the opinion that men are more likely to have the disorder, do you think that I have the disorder?
I should say, that about six months ago, my OH, three relations (who were all former "very best friends" of my sister) and myself, all met and swapped notes (so to speak).
All of us have had the phone slamming (what Alex Ferguson would call "the hairdryer treatment") on confronting her, the abusive letters afterwards. Every one had the attempted disruption of their marriage, trying to get the "best friend" to take holidays away on their own (if the children were more grown up, or with the children if they were toddlers), and of course the malicious gossip about the rest of us - how our marriages were breaking up, and invented problems such as alcoholism, abuse as a child. In all cases, it is clear that the narcissist makes out the spouse to be an evil person - in my case that was my wife, in the case of my three female relatives, their husbands.
In all of the letters she sent to us there was one common word - envy. In the letter she sent to me (very similar, identical in one case), she said - "You have so many talents that I am envious of you".
The fact is, that most of us are quite ordinary people (one of my cousins is a bit of a genius, worked on the European space program, is a pilot, and speaks about five languages - which reminds me of something my sister said - "qualifications aren't everything!").

So, Poet123, what do you think?

lostinrates

melanzana wrote: »

Hi. Could you link that thread please, thanks.

My friend lost her son last year at age 25 tragically.

Has been in bereavement counselling for 6 months, and found out her counsellor lost her daughter to cancer at 24 years 10 years ago. Only came out two weeks ago. The counsellor told her.

This was not a good development for friend. Friend feels she now has to sympathise. Doesn't want to. Her sons death is her grief.

Now I have no doubt that empathy is imperative on the part of thr counsellor, But.... Do you see what I mean?

I did see this, but I don't think my link would help:o. Its very short but self centred thread looking for people who have experienced counselling for life changing health issues, as has been strongly recommended to me.

I haven't decided what to do about that yet. I'm on the fence. I like the of improving current look and stress strategy but I don't want to have to go into old ground at all. I'm not sure how easily the two can be separated though!

poet123

andygb wrote: »

So, bearing in mind your last point, and the information which I have given on this thread, would you consider that my sister has NPD, or maybe because you are of the opinion that men are more likely to have the disorder, do you think that I have the disorder?
I should say, that about six months ago, my OH, three relations (who were all former "very best friends" of my sister) and myself, all met and swapped notes (so to speak).
All of us have had the phone slamming (what Alex Ferguson would call "the hairdryer treatment") on confronting her, the abusive letters afterwards. Every one had the attempted disruption of their marriage, trying to get the "best friend" to take holidays away on their own (if the children were more grown up, or with the children if they were toddlers), and of course the malicious gossip about the rest of us - how our marriages were breaking up, and invented problems such as alcoholism, abuse as a child. In all cases, it is clear that the narcissist makes out the spouse to be an evil person - in my case that was my wife, in the case of my three female relatives, their husbands.
In all of the letters she sent to us there was one common word - envy. In the letter she sent to me (very similar, identical in one case), she said - "You have so many talents that I am envious of you".
The fact is, that most of us are quite ordinary people (one of my cousins is a bit of a genius, worked on the European space program, is a pilot, and speaks about five languages - which reminds me of something my sister said - "qualifications aren't everything!").

So, Poet123, what do you think?

I am not qualified to diagnose and if I was it would be via the correct medium. There is strict criteria for use by diagnosticians and all of it must be met (and other mh issues ruled out) before a diagnosis is given.

It is not my opinion that more men have it than women, it is a fact.

My overall point is that it affects 1% or less of the population......are their relatives all on MSE?;)

missprice

poet123 wrote: »

It is important to distinguish between those who have narcissistic personality traits and those suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. Having some of the former does not mean you have the latter.

ETA less than 1% of us have this disorder, and the vast majority are men.

poet123 wrote: »

I am not qualified to diagnose and if I was it would be via the correct medium. There is strict criteria for use by diagnosticians and all of it must be met (and other mh issues ruled out) before a diagnosis is given.

It is not my opinion that more men have it than women, it is a fact.

My overall point is that it affects 1% or less of the population......are their relatives all on MSE?;)

Poet forgive me as am not feeling the greatest today, but
Are you trying to say none on here or this thread are in fact NPD?
What difference does that make as the same attitudes e.g broken record will have same effect whether NPD or just plain mean.
If someone is mean, nasty or mentally cruel to anyone over a prolonged period and that person wants to finally deal with it, does it matter if just called NPD or t0sser?

Not sure if your trying to say the NPD person needs more understanding from the victim, or something else?
And what's with the more men have it? How do you know, Linky or something pretty please

lostinrates

poet123 wrote: »

I am not qualified to diagnose and if I was it would be via the correct medium. There is strict criteria for use by diagnosticians and all of it must be met (and other mh issues ruled out) before a diagnosis is given.

I think this is really clear what poet is saying.

This reads to me as if she is saying that it is not her position to say whether she thinks the description here of anyone is NPD, that if she was in a position to do so she would not do so on a forum, and she would only do so after finding more out and ruling out other conditions.


That's as it should be, surely?

Medical advise is ruled out on MSE and other forums for good reason. Medical information about third parties among ethical professionals likewise.

KxMx

poet123 wrote: »

I am not qualified to diagnose and if I was it would be via the correct medium. There is strict criteria for use by diagnosticians and all of it must be met (and other mh issues ruled out) before a diagnosis is given.

It is not my opinion that more men have it than women, it is a fact.

My overall point is that it affects 1% or less of the population......are their relatives all on MSE?;)

How many registered members of MSE are there, and how many individual posters have talked about NPD in their lives?
Likewise how many threads about NPD, and how many threads on MSE overall?

Do those stats match up with yours?

By the way, those living with NPD or people with Narcissistic tendencies tend to have been trained by the N in question to think the N is always right and the other person is always wrong.

Speaking personally I cannot tell you just how liberating it is to find out that things you have been told are normal are in fact abnormal. Myself I had started along that path independently but to find others out there who understood and to see things in black and white that I could then go research myself was amazing.

I managed to salvage my relationship with the person who has narcissistic tendencies and know from other stories on here how lucky I am. This has done both me and the person involved the world of good, we get on so much better and I at least am much happier! The other person will even admit now that they see they did not treat me well and I no longer daydream about cutting contact/ only phoning them once a week.

Narcissism is very taboo, especially when that person is a parent and the cult of "honour thy mother and father" more often than not will place the blame on the offspring without a second thought. Society is very judgemental of offspring who cut out their parents and cast the parents as the poor innocent injured party, and the offspring the big bad wolf.

It is incredibly helpful to find others with parents who do not treat them well and can give people confidence to act in their own best interests instead of pandering to the narcissist. It can show those people a way forward, offer them support and understanding whereas wider society would happily cast them out!

I know the thread by happyhaddock was incredibly helpful to many, many people.

Quibble all you like about definitions but unless you've lived through it or with it you just can't understand. And I think some comments on this thread demonstrate this.

lostinrates

Maybe you are right Kxmx. But you see, I also feel that some of the things said 'in retaliation' to dissenting posts confirm the concerns I have felt.

Vicky123

Where does the 1% come from? Is this people with a diagnosis or an estimate? NPD is extremely hard to diagnose as those with the condition will do their level best to hide it and are unlikely to approach a health professional in the first place. It's far more likely to be diagnosed when someone is in the criminal justice system or ordered psychiatric assessment by a court.
People could be living with someone who has NPD and just forever cow towing and keeping them as satisfied as possible for many years, they could literally spend decades walking on egg shells but their partner has no diagnosis of anything simply because they see nothing wrong with their behaviour.
I would imagine this is one of the most under diagnosed conditions for the reasons already mentioned, but, in any case even if someone doesn't fit the diagnostic criteria for NPD they can still be an impossible bully.
Victims of NPD will often have no one to turn to other than the internet for validation of how they are feeling because typically they have been isolated from all other support, family and friends.