Narcisism!

andygb

lostinrates wrote: »

What do you think might have contributed to what you see as NOD in your sister Andy gb?

I have been thinking about this a lot, because we have very different personalities.
As a child, from the age of about three, I was beaten by my mother (never my father, he just used to shout), because she had a very quick temper, and would lash out with her hands, or for quite minor disobedience would use a bamboo cane.
However, my sister was never beaten as far as I can remember.
When my sister got to about seven or eight, she used to do things and get me blamed and then beaten.
I assume that as she always got away with doing anything, she just grew in confidence.
She has never had a relationship at all, and has always lived at home, so she has therefore been sheltered from the real World.
She gets broody, and likes to be around children, but again, this could simply be because she finds it easier to control them, and does not get into any confrontational conversations with them.

lostinrates

poet123 wrote: »

I think what interests me is that up until you read an old thread you had not heard of this "condition/disorder" now you have and suddenly you are certain it applies to your sister. And also want to lump it in with recognised ( and treatable, though not curable) medical disorders.

I think that a thread that can do that is quite dangerous.

I think that labelling it perhaps seems to make it easier to cope with and rationalise. That doesn't make the label correct.

Hmm, yes, but also, the reason I asked why, is because I think once people have established in their mind that the other person is an officially nasty person with NPD, it becomes not the 'victims fault' but no reason beyond nor compassion nor understanding is looked at. Its as if its ok to blame everything on them.

( removed by me because decided I was uncomfortable with it)

As regards making a nurse cry, usually that sort of thing is dealt with very firmly by hospitals, and sadly, as a patient in hospital a bit as an out patient, I see it regrettably frequently, poor behaviour both towards but also by medical staff. Nurses make patients cry surprisingly often!

poet123

andygb wrote: »

I have been thinking about this a lot, because we have very different personalities.
As a child, from the age of about three, I was beaten by my mother (never my father, he just used to shout), because she had a very quick temper, and would lash out with her hands, or for quite minor disobedience would use a bamboo cane.
However, my sister was never beaten as far as I can remember.
When my sister got to about seven or eight, she used to do things and get me blamed and then beaten.
I assume that as she always got away with doing anything, she just grew in confidence.
She has never had a relationship at all, and has always lived at home, so she has therefore been sheltered from the real World.
She gets broody, and likes to be around children, but again, this could simply be because she finds it easier to control them, and does not get into any confrontational conversations with them.

That struck a chord with me because I work with someone who fits your sisters description to a T. And yet, my feeling is that she is as she is because she is deeply unhappy with her life and yet sees no avenues open for her to change it. Therefore, she is confrontational, she is bolshy, she holds others to standards she doesn't always reach, and she often lacks empathy. That is her outlet.

That doesn't mean she has a personality disorder though.

lostinrates

andygb wrote: »

I have been thinking about this a lot, because we have very different personalities.
As a child, from the age of about three, I was beaten by my mother (never my father, he just used to shout), because she had a very quick temper, and would lash out with her hands, or for quite minor disobedience would use a bamboo cane.
However, my sister was never beaten as far as I can remember.
When my sister got to about seven or eight, she used to do things and get me blamed and then beaten.
I assume that as she always got away with doing anything, she just grew in confidence.
She has never had a relationship at all, and has always lived at home, so she has therefore been sheltered from the real World.
She gets broody, and likes to be around children, but again, this could simply be because she finds it easier to control them, and does not get into any confrontational conversations with them.

Quote from the dangerously unreliable Wikipedia on cause of NPD. Very different from getting away with things or being protected if its correct.


Pathological narcissism can develop from an impairment in the quality of the person's relationship with their primary caregivers, usually their parents, in that the parents could not form a healthy and empathic attachment to them.[14] This results in the child's perception of himself/herself as unimportant and unconnected to others. The child typically comes to believe they have some personality defect that makes them unvalued and unwanted.[15]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#Theories

andygb

poet123 wrote: »

I think what interests me is that up until you read an old thread you had not heard of this "condition/disorder" now you have and suddenly you are certain it applies to your sister. And also want to lump it in with recognised ( and treatable, though not curable) medical disorders.

I think that a thread that can do that is quite dangerous.

I think that labelling it perhaps seems to make it easier to cope with and rationalise. That doesn't make the label correct.

Do you believe that NPD exists, and have you ever known someone with it?
If you have then it would be nice for you to tell us what they are/were like.

This is an interesting link:

http://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/counsellor-articles/about-narcissism-part-1-what-it-is-and-some-typical-behaviours

I have known for a long time, that something is seriously wrong with my sister, and it was indeed about a year ago when I first heard about NPD.
To be honest, I don't care what they call it, but the fact is, that my sister is not a very nice person, and all of her "symptoms" (for want of a better word), match those of NPD.

poet123

andygb wrote: »

Do you believe that NPD exists, and have you ever known someone with it?
If you have then it would be nice for you to tell us what they are/were like.

This is an interesting link:

http://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/counsellor-articles/about-narcissism-part-1-what-it-is-and-some-typical-behaviours

I have known for a long time, that something is seriously wrong with my sister, and it was indeed about a year ago when I first heard about NPD.
To be honest, I don't care what they call it, but the fact is, that my sister is not a very nice person, and all of her "symptoms" (for want of a better word), match those of NPD.

Undoubtedly it exists.

I also have counselling qualifications so I am familiar with various articles/books on the subject.

andygb

lostinrates wrote: »

Quote from the dangerously unreliable Wikipedia on cause of NPD. Very different from getting away with things or being protected if its correct.


Pathological narcissism can develop from an impairment in the quality of the person's relationship with their primary caregivers, usually their parents, in that the parents could not form a healthy and empathic attachment to them.[14] This results in the child's perception of himself/herself as unimportant and unconnected to others. The child typically comes to believe they have some personality defect that makes them unvalued and unwanted.[15]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#Theories

That is pretty much the opposite of her early life.
This however copied and pasted from the same source is spot on.

People who are overly narcissistic commonly feel rejected, humiliated and threatened when criticised. To protect themselves from these dangers, they often react with disdain, rage, and/or defiance to any slight criticism, real or imagined.[18] To avoid such situations, some narcissistic people withdraw socially and may feign modesty or humility. In cases where the narcissistic personality-disordered individual feels a lack of admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation, he or she may also manifest a desire to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply).
Although individuals with NPD are often ambitious and capable, the inability to tolerate setbacks, disagreements or criticism, along with lack of empathy, make it difficult for such individuals to work cooperatively with others


Walking out of rooms, putting phones down on others, unable to work in a team. Hostile to people who dare to question her.

andygb

poet123 wrote: »

Undoubtedly it exists.

I also have counselling qualifications so I am familiar with various articles/books on the subject.

But have you ever met anyone with NPD?

poet123

andygb wrote: »

But have you ever met anyone with NPD?

Medically diagnosed or otherwise diagnosed?

lostinrates

andygb wrote: »

That is pretty much the opposite of her early life.
This however copied and pasted from the same source is spot on.

People who are overly narcissistic commonly feel rejected, humiliated and threatened when criticised. To protect themselves from these dangers, they often react with disdain, rage, and/or defiance to any slight criticism, real or imagined.[18] To avoid such situations, some narcissistic people withdraw socially and may feign modesty or humility. In cases where the narcissistic personality-disordered individual feels a lack of admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation, he or she may also manifest a desire to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply).
Although individuals with NPD are often ambitious and capable, the inability to tolerate setbacks, disagreements or criticism, along with lack of empathy, make it difficult for such individuals to work cooperatively with others


Walking out of rooms, putting phones down on others, unable to work in a team. Hostile to people who dare to question her.

I know a fair few people like that! Not every day though tbf.

What I find interesting about the section you've quoted is a large amount of it (because you haven't selectively quoted) is about how people feel and what they react to. Obviously, we cannot know what the people we are thinking of are feeling, only what we suppose them to be.

My fear is in entrenching ourselves in the opinion they have the personality disorder we are refusing ourselves to be fallible, and thus you see the problem starts, because it could then be US refusing to be fallible, reacting negatively when challenged etc etc etc.

I'm just not sure I'm infallible enough to call it on either of the people in my life, though it seems the one in particular fits the causation profile more closely. Tbh, selfishly, I'm more concerned to break the cycle.