Narcisism!

poet123

meritaten wrote: »

If you have a problem because the thread is about Narcissism (and it is rather obvious from the title), then why read it? YOU chose to read on, and then comment in this negative manner.
You may have noticed that this is an old thread which has been 'resurrected' because someone wanted knowledge or advice about the condition. If it has helped just that one person I consider it a privelidge to have posted the thread.

You always have a choice on Forum - read it or not!

I was under the impression this was a discussion forum.

And I am discussing. I also have another choice, post or not. I have chosen to post, I am sorry if you have a problem with that, but I will post or not, on whatever thread I choose.

And, giving advice or knowledge on a "condition" is very near to the line on MSE. Especially when such advice is gleaned from amateur diagnosis.

lostinrates

My concern is that a lot of people I know (in real life) talking a bout narcism also fulfil the criteria. When they get support and validation in environments such as this is it helpful really?

Do narcissists know they are narcisists?
I think most of us know some people who are narcissistic ( I think some of us if we are honest admit to times when we are, I know I am) but I think if we apstarted to point the finger at lots of people in our lives being wrong and everyone we come across being 'difficult' it becomes important to look at ourselves. I know there are times in my life i relate badly to other people.

I also am very uncomfortable with the 'children of narcisists are all nice people' sort of thing that goes on, because I think that all people are flawed. I feel very strongly that as an adult how I react and what I take forward from my childhood is MY responsibility, not my parents'. Before adult hood, sure, they can take some blame....but if I drag it forward its MY failure to deal with it. However difficult the situation as adults, especially adults who want to take responsibility for other people's emotions by having relationships, or emotions and safety, by having children, I feel we have to take responsibility for how we handle our back story. (I can just imagine people imagining my childhood was perfect.....it really wasn't).

Narcissistic people , ones who have NPD, are often that way IIUI because something has happened that they have needed to protect themselves from. This could even be something like a narcissistic parent or sibling!

lostinrates

Dunroamin wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't realise that it was only people who're in total agreement with you who are allowed to post - I obviously missed the rule about that!;)

I think merit has a point, no one has to read. I find it interesting because some people have suggested this to me about two people close to me. I know I probably have the capacity to behave narcissistically. However, as we hope no people with NPD are about, presumably we can all agree to disagree round these parts?

poet123

lostinrates wrote: »

My concern is that a lot of people I know (in real life) talking a bout narcism also fulfil the criteria. When they get support and validation in environments such as this is it helpful really?

That was something that I thought about. The validation that they are wholly in the right and that the other person is disordered is in itself quite dangerous I think.

lostinrates wrote: »

Do narcissists know they are narcisists?

Doubtful, and as you say you can see it in those who make the comments about others, so you would have to say no, they don't recognise it in themselves
.

lostinrates wrote: »

I think most of us know some people who are narcissistic ( I think some of us if we are honest admit to times when we are, I know I am) but I think if we apstarted to point the finger at lots of people in our lives being wrong and everyone we come across being 'difficult' it becomes important to look at ourselves. I know there are times in my life i relate badly to other people.

Exactly. Who amongst us has not, at some time, with some people, exhibited the "damning" traits detailed above?

lostinrates wrote: »

I also am very uncomfortable with the 'children of narcisists are all nice people' sort of thing that goes on, because I think that all peoe are flawed.

Again, I agree. There are some vitriolic posts on here, and tbh I can't see that those posters are particularly easy to deal with in rl.

lostinrates wrote: »

Narcissistic people , ones who have NPD, are often that way IIUC because something has happened that they have needed to protect themselves from. This could even be something like a narcissistic parent!

The cycle often repeats without those involved being aware that they have become what they so despised.

Which is why I don't think labelling is helpful.

Dunroamin

lostinrates wrote: »

I think merit has a point, no one has to read. I find it interesting because some people have suggested this to me about two people close to me. I know I probably have the capacity to behave narcissistically. However, as we hope no people with NPD are about, presumably we can all agree to disagree round these parts?

I'm always happy to agree to disagree but I do object to being told I don't have the right to do so.:)

lostinrates

Thanks poet, I feel you have understood what I am trying to say. I did make some edits while you were commenting, which I hope do not confuse the issue!

I do not mean to be contentious, its just I find this subject interesting for personal reasons, and actually I would say reading it over time has 'spoken to me' but not necessarily on the way it has to others.

andygb

lostinrates wrote: »

I think merit has a point, no one has to read. I find it interesting because some people have suggested this to me about two people close to me. I know I probably have the capacity to behave narcissistically. However, as we hope no people with NPD are about, presumably we can all agree to disagree round these parts?

I also think that many if not all people have the capacity to be narcissistic, but if you read up about the telltale signs, there are a few people who fulfil most of the criteria every day of their life.
There must also be varying degrees of narcissism.
If you take my sister for instance, she does not like sharing anything, but she can seem to be generous, giving presents to people. However, there is a reason for the present giving, she will bring up the subject every time she sees them, even telling them how much it cost.
She cannot work with other people, and in fact has only had one job (which lasted for a couple of months) in thirty six years, and that involves looking after (controlling) elderly people, who cannot answer back to her.
She has fallen out with relations and neighbours, and does not have any real friends. Her behaviour towards relations, and their subsequent reaction has led to her walking out of rooms and putting down phones on them, because she cannot discuss anything where people are questioning her.
She has also written "poison pen" letters to relations (including three to myself), when we have questioned her over spreading malicious gossip and lies.
I guess that NPD does not have to be evil or nasty, but in the case I have come across it certainly is.

The worst thing is that the person with NPD will NEVER admit that they are in the wrong, and I have never heard an apology offered, in fact on one occasion, my sister recounted a story to me where she had been so verbally abusive to a nurse, that the nurse broke down in tearsy sister sounded quite proud of her actions.

lostinrates

What do you think might have contributed to what you see as NOD in your sister Andy gb?

andygb

poet123 wrote: »

Exactly. Who amongst us has not, at some time, with some people, exhibited the "damning" traits detailed above?

Again, I agree. There are some vitriolic posts on here, and tbh I can't see that those posters are particularly easy to deal with in rl.

I totally agree that all of us at some time probably exhibit some of the narcissistic traits, but in my experience, people with NPD exhibit many of those traits every day of their life, and it is very exhausting and frustrating to be around them.

I suppose that you could call my posts "vitriolic", but I could show you letters sent to me (and others who have got on the wrong side of her) by a person with NPD, and you would hardly believe the content.
I am a pretty laid back person in real life, but I do stand up for myself, probably because I was bullied as a child, I was determined that it wouldn't happen again.
I had never heard of NPD until about a year ago - probably from the older post on here, and I also have to agree with you that not everyone suspected of having these various "disorders" - ADHD, NPD, Aspergers - actually has them, but when you see someone who regularly exhibits all the symptoms, all the time, then it is quite shocking.

poet123

andygb wrote: »

I totally agree that all of us at some time probably exhibit some of the narcissistic traits, but in my experience, people with NPD exhibit many of those traits every day of their life, and it is very exhausting and frustrating to be around them.

I suppose that you could call my posts "vitriolic", but I could show you letters sent to me (and others who have got on the wrong side of her) by a person with NPD, and you would hardly believe the content.
I am a pretty laid back person in real life, but I do stand up for myself, probably because I was bullied as a child, I was determined that it wouldn't happen again.
I had never heard of NPD until about a year ago - probably from the older post on here, and I also have to agree with you that not everyone suspected of having these various "disorders" - ADHD, NPD, Aspergers - actually has them, but when you see someone who regularly exhibits all the symptoms, all the time, then it is quite shocking.

I think what interests me is that up until you read an old thread you had not heard of this "condition/disorder" now you have and suddenly you are certain it applies to your sister. And also want to lump it in with recognised ( and treatable, though not curable) medical disorders.

I think that a thread that can do that is quite dangerous.

I think that labelling it perhaps seems to make it easier to cope with and rationalise. That doesn't make the label correct.