Child Stealing and Lying

meds12_2

liney wrote: »

I rarely need to discipline my son (6) but when I do it's a swift removal of pocket money/toy/TV time with one warning given prior.

If it was over what he wanted to wear, or whether he was allowed a biscuit i'd be considering finding myself a hobby! Ridiculous. Choose your battles wisely.

I must disagree that 'lightly smacking' is a fair or appropriate punishment; in my opinion it teaches a child nothing other than it's ok to hit people smaller than you. How's that fair? Hitting people is unacceptable under any circumstances.

I agree completely over choosing your battles! No point being petty. I do use time-out (on the bottom step) with my daughter (almost 5), but, like you, almost never need to use it, and it is always with a warning first.

I know we are getting slightly off-topic here, but I do support parents in moderate use of CP. I didn't say "hitting" a child is ok - a light smack is a different thing altogether, and of course I think that beating a child is completely wrong! I have smacked my daughter twice in her entire life - once for running in a road after I had asked her not to (a smack is not as bad as a child being run over!), and once when she deliberately kicked me in the face as I put her to bed. Both times they were about as hard as when I play Patticake with her - so just to short, sharp, shock her into not doing these things again really.

I did a critique of smacking research at Uni - there are loads of problems with current research, the main problems being that correlational designs do not show causation and that's what the anti-smacking lobbies base their opinions on, and that "were you smacked / were you not smacked" surveys generally include people that were severely physically abused in their "were smacked" group so obviously outcomes would reflect that. There was research out last year that showed moderate smacking for discipline was associated with very positive outcomes in all areas (there were about 9), but again this is correlational research so can't show that smacking causes future psych / behavioural problems or successful behaviour.

Saying this I do know some people that smack and shout a lot, and smack and shout a lot every day for minor minor things, and I personally don't find that acceptable.

OP (sorry to take so long to get round to you!)- do you have children yourself? Maybe you could have a conversation with her, but try to get herself to open up to you by admiting a problem yourself (eg "I really find it hard to know how strict to be - if I discipline about everything she/he gets really subversive, I find it hard to know when to discipline and when to let things go") or you could do it from a supposed "worried friend perspective".

grey_lady

Themapples please think about what mupette has just wrote, it seems like you don't want to say anything because it's easier to not rock the boat. Well, when it comes to a child, that's not good enough, if you are worried then 'man up' to your brother and sister in law or contact someone who can give professional advice.

lessonlearned

Just read this thread, so sad I couldn't just read and run.

I agree with Mupette you must try and do something and for the same reasons.

I too had a miserable childhood, mainly emotional abuse, harsh punishments, forcing me to eat food until I gagged etc but also being hit and punched (with bruises to show for it too). No-one stepped in to help me when I was small and helpless.

When I was a teenager, about 15, my parents arranged for me to have a psychiatric assessment because I was "difficult" - my parents words.

Guess what - the assessors report said that it was my father who needed psychiatric help. My mother just went along with my father, following his lead, because she wanted to avoid "upsetting your dad". I learned to stand up to my Dad, sadly I also learned to despise my mother for not protecting me.

You might only be seeing a small part of what's going on. However, your instincts are telling you something is wrong. Follow your instincts - if you are fretting over nothing then great, if you are right, you might save your niece (and maybe the other two little ones) a great deal of unhappiness.

These days there's a lot of help and support out there and I'm sure you can remain anonymous. Your brother and SIL won't know its you, that way you can report your fears and still be around to keep a watchful eye on your niece.

Good luck.

Mupette

lessonlearned wrote: »

Just read this thread, so sad I couldn't just read and run.

I agree with Mupette you must try and do something and for the same reasons.

I too had a miserable childhood, mainly emotional abuse, harsh punishments, forcing me to eat food until I gagged etc but also being hit and punched (with bruises to show for it too). No-one stepped in to help me when I was small and helpless.

When I was a teenager, about 15, my parents arranged for me to have a psychiatric assessment because I was "difficult" - my parents words.

Guess what - the assessors report said that it was my father who needed psychiatric help. My mother just went along with my father, following his lead, because she wanted to avoid "upsetting your dad". I learned to stand up to my Dad, sadly I also learned to despise my mother for not protecting me.

You might only be seeing a small part of what's going on. However, your instincts are telling you something is wrong. Follow your instincts - if you are fretting over nothing then great, if you are right, you might save your niece (and maybe the other two little ones) a great deal of unhappiness.

These days there's a lot of help and support out there and I'm sure you can remain anonymous. Your brother and SIL won't know its you, that way you can report your fears and still be around to keep a watchful eye on your niece.

Good luck.

I still to this day can not abide fat on lamb, or gristle, after having to eat gristle one day, i sat at that table and chewed and chewed and chewed and i just could not swallow, i was told to stay there until i had, i was so long at the table (a good few hours) mum wanted to go see dad (he was at a garage doing his car) we walked there with me still desperately trying to chew and swallow... was warned not to spit it out or i would have to pick it up and eat it.

But fortune found a way mum was talking to dad i spat it out in some tall grass... but continued to chew the gristle (if she had known it would of been beatings) mum looked at me and shouted for god sake swallow it... so pretended to swallow.

This wasn't me wasting meat, this was gristle.
I was never a fussy eater, i learnt from an early age that food was scarese and finish what was on your plate.

I still feel that when i left home i was looking for security of what i had just lost and married the first bloke i dated... a year dating and married, 10 years of abuse and violence.

Maybe if i had, had a better childhood i wouldn't of had 10 years of hell, the only good thing out of it was DS.

I now have a second chance of love with OH we plan to marry next year and he couldn't be so far from the ex.

jackieglasgow

Mupette thank you for being so candid and sharing your story. I am amazed at the turn this thread was taking and the fact that people were choosing to comment on the punishment, and not the "crime" This child is being abused, and as her aunt OP, you are the only grown up in her world who is in the position to do anything about it. Please contact the child protection officer at her school, or Social Services. Don't be anonymous, she needs someone in her corner. Ask them not to tell the parents who has been in touch, but ask to be kept informed about what is going on, as far as they can. Are you in a position to have the girl if she needs to be removed from the situation? In my experience, if they are not shy about treating the girl in this way in front of others, what she is suffering behind closed doors is possibly much, much worse.

lessonlearned

Ah Mupette

That's rough. Glad you are so happy and settled now - good luck with everything.

Like you I married the first one that came along - just to get away. He wasn't violent or anything but he didn't make me happy - he was a bit controlling and sulked if things were not done "his way".

I too got divorced, my current OH is a wonderful man, two gorgeous grown up sons - we get there in the end.

I adored and cherished my boys - I was determined to be a better parent and not let history repeat itself. We have a great relationship and I know my boys love me and their dad to bits. Sadly OH is now ill and probably may not live to see any grandchildren but, hopefully, we'll have some of those one day.

I know my boys will be good parents - they don't know the nitty gritty about my childhood and their grandparents. However they're not stupid and they've sussed things out for themselves. I tried to be careful and not spoil their relationship with their grandparents but they're smart and they worked it out for themselves.

Grab that second chance at love and happiness - you deserve it.:D

Mupette

OP can you make a little card for your niece with the number of childline on it, slip it to her with no one else around. Don't have anything else on it just the name and number (don't have your details on in case mother finds it)

Just by that gesture, she will know you are there for her, and believe me that will mean so much.

Loulou2010

faithcecilia wrote: »

Without seeing exactly what the child does, I actually dont see the punishments as that bad. 20mins isn't long for a 9yr old to be in time-out - I personally think it should be until the child is genuinely sorry (I know a child who has been 3hrs before saying sorry!). And if she is hungry enough, she will eat what is put in front of her. I simply cannot abide fussy eaters and certainly wouldn't provide alternative food.

If you are concerned, then try to talk to your brother, otherwise I would leave it be - you don't know what might have led up to the dress issue etc, or how badly she may have behaved previously.

you sound like my mother

Mupette wrote: »

OP can you make a little card for your niece with the number of childline on it, slip it to her with no one else around. Don't have anything else on it just the name and number (don't have your details on in case mother finds it)

Just by that gesture, she will know you are there for her, and believe me that will mean so much.

i think that is a good idea. just someone for her to talk to in confidence and knowing that it would get back to her parents could release a lot of pressure

i too think something needs to be done. why be scared of your brother or his wife finding out that it was you? i mean if it stops the hell that she is going through then that is all that matters. surely the childs wellbeing should come first not worries about upsetting the brother? would rather have a falling out with him or have a chid who in a few years time, decides she cant take anymore and tried killing herself? the poor girl is getting it from all angles

and i cant remember who said it was down to bad parenting skills but imo if she can treat the other 2 fine then i dont see how it can be.

FatVonD

I too had an overly-controlling, overly-critical mother and I have little (no) love for her now I'm older. I've adored my dad for most of my life and it's only in the last few years I've allowed myself to lay some of the blame at his door too for being weak and enabling her. I had Godparents that I adored (and two young cousins that were their children) and they would often speak to my mum and say she was too strict (it made no difference) but they did always offer to have me to stay in the school holidays (until my mum fell out with them and they didn't speak for years because my Godfather moved his armchair closer to the fire in our house) and those visits make up most of my happiest childhood memories.

OP, I hadn't realised you were male so it may be more difficult to get time alone with her, I disagree about the letter (maybe a funny card occasionally if you see anything fitting?) and texting (in case it looks like grooming) but could you approach them and say that you want to take her somewhere and what date should you make it for so it's difficult for them to come up with an excuse?

Are there any activities you could involve her in that would need to be kept up on a regular basis (some sort of martial arts class would do wonders for her self esteem.)

It's a truly difficult situation and I don't believe social services would step in, look at how little power they have in cases where the abuse is life threatening, I can't see it happening, it's down to you to provide some respite. Good luck

FatVonD

faithcecilia wrote: »

I have more 'experience' than the mother of a toddler, giving birth does not instantly make you the perfect parent.

It might not instantly make you a perfect parent but the act of bearing your own child fills you with a love of a type that ensures you will nurture and protect that child at all costs. A type of love that (unless you are damaged yourself, and in most cases even that seems to stem from overly harsh parenting and abuse) wouldn't allow you to treat that child in a cruel fashion and would have you fight to the death for them.

You could look after children until the day you die and have all the 'experience' in the world (and sorry but I've yet to meet a Roman Catholic that didn't have at least one cruel and sadistic nun/father at their school) but unless you've had your own child you will never, EVER be able to comprehend that type of love so, yes, that does put the mother of a newborn ahead of you.