Child Stealing and Lying

MaLarkin

This sounds exactly like my mother was with me. No physical abuse but emotional torture.

If you have heard the mother call her daughter "a manipulative little cow" then I shudder to think what she will be saying to her when no-one is around.

My Dad didn't interfere because he never heard or saw the worst and of cause she had everyone convinced I was a liar so even if I did try to tell anyone it was dismissed as more lies.

The problem is that I am at a loss what to advise because people like that are so crafty and in my case I know any social worker would have gone away convinced my mother deserved an award for being such a good parent and I dread to think what my punishment would have been once I was left alone with her. Be very careful in deciding what to do because you could expose her to much worse treatment.

I would guess that you aren't allowed to be alone with her because you are sympathetic and disposed to believe whatever she might tell you. I think the suggestion of ringing the NSPCC for advice is probably the best option or maybe childline?

liney

meds12 wrote: »

Completely disagree. A fair but strict punishment which takes the wind out of the child's sails (can be verbal or time-out based or even a light smack), followed by a sincerely spoken apology on their behalf, followed by a discussion into what exactly was the problem with their behaviour and then (and this is important!) a positive "bigging up" of the child, focussing on their innate goodness, works very, very well.

I agree with the poster that said time-outs and refusal to make extra dishes are not excessive, however the language that is used (calling the child a "manipulative cow") and the lack of outings I find completely inappropriate.

And if the punishment is for, for arguments sake, showing a polite desire to wear a pair of jeans instead of a clearly innapropriate party frock? The child should be 'genuinely sorry' and apologise?

Even if you ignore the appropriateness of punishing a child until you break their will or force them to lie through gritted teeth, if the punishment is not for an appropriate reason in the first place how is the child supposed to deal with that?

barbiedoll

I love Ruth's idea of writing to your niece, does she have email or facebook? A letter is a good idea but if her mother is as controlling as she sounds, a letter may never actually reach her. If she has her own phone, even a text each day would be a little bit of support for her.

I agree that the punishments seem excessive and inappropriate. When my DS was that age, he would have his toys or computer games taken away for a day or so, I personally wouldn't have stood him in a corner for 20 minutes. And although I'm sure most mums on here have said horrible things to their kids at some point, it shouldn't be a habit and things such as "manipulative little cow" are really over a child's head anyway, it's hardly constructive criticism, it's just plain nasty.

It sounds as though the niece is being punished no matter what she does, she may as well lie and steal anyway. Most people realise that such behaviour is rooted in emotional issues and it seems as though this is probably the case here. It's interesting that you say that the younger daughter is sometimes treated this way too, but not the son (although I realise that he is still very young), maybe the mother is one of those women who resents her daughters? And she may well have been treated the same way by her parents, we are all a product of our upbringing.

I would keep trying to take your niece out if you possibly can. Arrange a day out before you ask her parents and be clear that you and her are going, don't ask them or give them a choice, tell them that you are picking her up at a time and date, and don't give them too much notice. If they refuse outright, you will have a little more ammunition with which to challenge them, or at least your brother. If you do manage to get her alone, don't criticise her mum and dad or probe into her family life too much, she may well go back to a grilling from her mother and you don't want her to feel torn between you. And I would agree with the other posters who have said to raise your concerns with the child protection agencies. Ultimately, if you feel worried enough to post on here, you should consider following it through, you may just change her life for the better.

KiKi

Humphrey10 wrote: »

So if you had to prepare food for someone who couldn't eat food that was cut in a particular way or was the wrong colour, they just would get nothing to eat? (eg, some people with OCD or autism might have problems with such things, and people do have phobias of the strangest things - eg I have a phobia of having my blood taken, logically this makes no sense as having blood taken causes no harm and does no damage to me, so imo a phobia of green (or whatever) food wouldn't be any more odd than a phobia of having blood taken).

I don't understand how people can be so cruel. How much trouble is it to ask someone their food preferences before preparing a meal?

Perhaps you should have read my previous post, Humphrey - I had already said that preferences are VERY important, as was being ill with certain foods, and referenced myself. What I said was:

I just *genuinely* don't like a lot of food. I have a very sensitive stomach and pallet, and I just cannot touch anything spicy or herby. Eating foods I don't like the taste of makes me physically throw up. My parents made me eat a pizza once with lots of basil on it and I was sick after 15 minutes. I knew I would be because I could tell by the taste how I was going to react.

My parents always made me eat some of my dinner, even when I didn't want to. They made me eat peas and carrots which I detested. I now can't eat either of them - carrots make me gag at the taste. They didn't force me, but they were firm with me (which I'm very grateful for). But if a child isn't eating enough, they may feel forced to steal food - which is why a parent should at least ensure there is some food on the plate the child will eat, even if they don't like it all. That doesn't mean feeding them chips or anything bad for them, but making sure they are getting the right nutrients in foods they like.

If a child (or adult, come to that) has autism or OCD, that's different. If the food makes them ill, that's different (as I said in my previous post). If the food makes them sick, or they just don't like it, that's different.

I was responding to a series of posts which you need to read to understand the context. I was agreeing that if a child is just being fussy and refusing to eat what's put in front of them simply because they want something nicer, or chocolate, or sweets, that's not acceptable. (If that were the case, my nieces, nephews and god-children would have grown up on a diet of chocolate and rice krispies.)

Do you still label me as cruel now you've read more than the one line you quoted?!

KiKi

meds12_2

liney wrote: »

And if the punishment is for, for arguments sake, showing a polite desire to wear a pair of jeans instead of a clearly innapropriate party frock? The child should be 'genuinely sorry' and apologise?

Even if you ignore the appropriateness of punishing a child until you break their will or force them to lie through gritted teeth, if the punishment is not for an appropriate reason in the first place how is the child supposed to deal with that?

Yes - that's why I used the word "fair". And of course boundaries and behaviour expectations need to be discussed with the child prior to giving out punishments. Can I ask how you discipline your children?

liney

meds12 wrote: »

Yes - that's why I used the word "fair". And of course boundaries and behaviour expectations need to be discussed with the child prior to giving out punishments. Can I ask how you discipline your children?

I rarely need to discipline my son (6) but when I do it's a swift removal of pocket money/toy/TV time with one warning given prior.

If it was over what he wanted to wear, or whether he was allowed a biscuit i'd be considering finding myself a hobby! Ridiculous. Choose your battles wisely.

I must disagree that 'lightly smacking' is a fair or appropriate punishment; in my opinion it teaches a child nothing other than it's ok to hit people smaller than you. How's that fair? Hitting people is unacceptable under any circumstances.

kafkathecat

I agree with liney. In fact my ds is 13 and I don't think I have ever punished him for anything. It may just be his temperament as I have never felt the need to. We have our moments but we try to negociate a solution which we are all happy with and amazingly we have done that since he was a toddler. Saying that my son couldn't steal a biscuit because all food is to share.

alwaysonthego_2

Ms_Chocaholic wrote: »

The only problem with OP ringing the NSPCC is that he/she will receive the advice but there's nothing he can do to force those actions on the parents.

Actually the NSPCC are authorised to start care proceedings.

What powers does the NSPCC have?

The NSPCC is the only UK charity with statutory powers to protect children at risk. It is authorised under the Children Act 1989 to apply for care and supervision orders in its own right. Alongside social services departments and the police this allows the NSPCC to act to protect children. More about our authorised person status
Back to top

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-advice/enquiries/child-protection-enquiries/child-protection-faqs/nspcc-child-protection-FAQs_wda72228.html

The only problem with emotional abuse that it is very hard to prove.

themapples

Wow, I didn't expect this many responses but thanks to everyone- you've been a lot of help. I honestly don't think they'd take heed if I spoke to my brother about it. I'm going to phone the NSPCC and see what they advise. Regardless, I'll be making sure that she knows that I'm there for her and will try doggedly to get her out of the house once in a while; even if it's just to walk the dog!

In answer to the questions asked:

Off the top of my head, the foods she won't eat are any fruit of veg, pasta or rice. She says she doesn't like the texture. She's not noticeably underweight, perhaps more on the overweight side even. I totally agree with whoever (sorry, lots of responses!) said that it was an effort to regain an area of control. She gets no other food if tea isn't eaten. She definitely eats her school meal- I'm friends with one of the dinnerladies who watches her like a hawk for me!
I'm not sure how often she's told to stand in the corner tbh since I'm not there all the time. However, say 3 or 4 times in the past month when I've actually been there.

I don't think the mother is being intentionally abusive. It seems a matter of liking control. Problems only occur if the kid goes against what the mother says for whatever reason- no ifs or buts whatsoever may be raised however rational.

MaLarkin- I think you're right that no social worker would be able to find a problem therefore it seems useless to get them involved.

I think the idea of writing to her is a good one but I sense my sister-in-law wouldn't be happy about it.

Mupette

I'm a grown woman now, and Christmas just gone, i found out that other family members knew about my childhood being bad.


I stole food/money i was hungry, didn't have pocket money. didn't get treats like sweets, but parents had biscuits and cakes, i rarely got any - no excuse but when you desire something and they treat themselves and your not allowed, at that age it is unfair.

As an only child, mum often beat me, for little or no excuse, she blamed everything but her for her actions, recently when i bought it up so i could bury the demons, she claims she can't remember, when i was younger it was, i wish you were never born, the stillborn brother...
mum had kidney disease from before i was born, up until i was 16 when she had her transplant.

I was her career when she was on home dialasys because she would not have anyone else in the home (she said she could trust no outsiders as they have stolen from her in the past)

i had to stay home from school 3 mornings a week, school work suffered, i had to do all house work and if she was not happy with the standards i was beaten, until it was done her way. she claims back them this is how she was raised and did her no harm, dad stayed out of it and let her deal with raising me.


by the time i was 16 i had left school and got a job within 2 weeks of leaving school, this was not a proud moment, she grumbled about me wearing a dress of her's to the interview (the week before she had allowed me to wear this dress to another interview)
at 17 i took an overdose, it was (to me my only way out) my only hope of stopping the torturer.

I wasn't allowed friends home, wasn't allowed out with them, only down to a friends house 1 street away, but if she went out into town i was not allowed to go.

That failed (thank god) because 2 days later a work colleague asked me what was wrong, i broke down and told her, that afternoon it was arranged for me to go to another work colleagues house to stay for the weekend, so i left home (oh she revealled in that) mum told me i would be pregnant in 6 months, etc...


fast forward 20 years to my nan's funeral, at the wake, someone had nan's photo's she always carried, in them i was there as a child, always sad looking, my OH asked why, dad said i was a miserable child, and a quick slap always sorted me out, OH was disgusted, he walked away, he wasn't sure whether to believe me when i said i had a bad childhood, until dad said that, then he knew.

Then at Christmas my aunt and uncle (dad's brother)came over, and something was said, he looked at me and said he knew i was having a bad time, he knew things were bad at home.

I could of cried there and then, why didn't they do anything, say something... child-line wasn't around then, otherwise i would of rang them. Mum always threatened to put me in a children's home, i begged her to do so, thinking it would be a better life for me.

I really think OP you should do something, maybe the best bet is to speak with the school, voice your concerns, and tell them how much trouble it could cause you, they will then keep you out of it.

This little girl must be terribly unhappy and sad, what a waste of childhood.