Child Stealing and Lying

Triker

Anyways....back to the OP's situation, basically your sister in law and brother need it pointing out that High Criticism and Low Warmth....aka Neglect can have devastating results;

extract here taken from this http://www.safeguardingchildren.co.uk/tester001.html


4.3 Recognition of abuse and neglect

The factors described below are frequently found in cases of child abuse or neglect. Their presence is not proof that abuse has occurred, but:

• Must be regarded as indicators of the possibility of significant harm;
• Indicates a need for careful assessment and discussion with the agency’s nominated child protection lead;
• May require consultation with and/or referral to the LA children’s social care and / or the police.

The absence of such indicators does not mean that abuse or neglect has not occurred.
In an abusive relationship the child may:

• Appear frightened of the parent;
• Act in a way that is inappropriate to their age and development.

The parent may:

• Persistently avoid routine child health services and/or treatment when the child is ill;
• Have unrealistic expectations of the child;
• Frequently complain about / to the child and may fail to provide attention or praise (high criticism / low warmth environment);
• Be absent or leave the child with inappropriate carers;
• Have mental health problems which they do not appear to be managing;
• Be misusing substances;
• Persistently refuse to allow access on home visits;
• Persistently avoid contact with services or delay the start or continuation of treatment;
• Be involved in domestic abuse;
• Fail to ensure the child receives an appropriate education.

Professionals should be aware of the potential risk of harm to children when individuals (adults or children), previously known or suspected to have abused children, move into the household.


So basically, if you feel you can then you need to step in and have some discussions with these family members, if you feel you can't then I would suggest you contact some of the numerous organisations, from NSPCC, to possibly Social Services (although they tend to be incredibly overstretched due to redundancies and huge cutbacks on the frontline)...good luck.

Another suggestion would be to invite your niece to stay with you regularly so she gets some respite from her home circumstances.

DVardysShadow

pinkclouds wrote: »

That's a little unfair; faithcecilia is merely very old-fashioned. It is possible to use strict "punishments" so long as the child is secure and well-loved.

I can't see anything unfair. Punishing someone until they are genuinely sorry is not so much old fashioned as mistaken.

puddy

the child's behaviour is not really to do with getting or not getting pocket money/food/wearing the right clothing, they are external representations of the real issue here which is the child's feelings about her mother (and possibly father if he does nothing to protect from the mother). the child will have had her confidence and self esteem eroded by the parenting she has received, any kindness or softness that is present from the mother will merely confuse the child rather than show the child that there is love there.

she is likely very angry at her mother and will grow to hate her unless the mother adapts her parenting to one where she can explain and demonstrate boundaries in a connected way, rather than saying to the child (effectively) you are wrong and horrible as a person, which to me it sounds like she is doing.

liney

Punishing a child until they 'genuinely sorry' means punishing a child until you have broken their will.

Nimeth

OP, based on your observations, how much total time per day would you say your niece spends with her nose in the corner? 20 minutes in time out IS excessive, even for a 9 year old. If this time out is a favourite punishment I can imagine that she spends quite a lot of time wedged in the corner for every little misstep.

I can also see why the child steals biscuits if she's regularly sent to bed without meals. Does she get sent to bed without dinner if she won't eat?

Re the fussy eaters, I really like the way my sister handles mealtimes. She has three boys between the ages of 2 and 6. She makes dinner, no requests or special 'extra' dinners. If it's something they've not had before, she tells them that they need to try whatever is put in front of them. If they genuinely don't like it, she will make them a simple sandwich with some raw fruit and veg (again they don't get to choose what it is) but only if they've tried what she's made first. I have never ever seen her make a sandwich under these circumstances and the boys are great little eaters. I think forcing a child to sit and try to make them eat something for hours on end, only to end with them sent to bed with nothing is only going to foster resentment and encourage food theft.

If the younger two siblings are not treated this way, I can see the 9 year old coming to resent them too for mummy 'playing favourites' with them.

mummyplus3

Does she get packed lunches or dinners at school? if she is getting bullied then she could be not eating at school to try and get out of the lunch room and away from bullies as quickly as possible which could expain why she is hungry in the evenings, I don't really think 20mins in time out acheives anything things like this happened to me as a child and I am grosely overweight even now struggle to not secretly eat food even though its mine! plus the string of bad relationships with dreadful men to get away from home as soon as possible!

I would speak to the school and keep and eye on her, make sure the school deals with the bullying and that they can check she is eating a full lunch and if what she is getting is enough. Maybe if its not they could send out a school letter just pointing out what should be in kids lunchboxes etc.. (not just to her but like a blanket one to everyone)

the_cat

OP - my post is based on an assumption that the mother is not INTENTIONALLY being abusive to the child but has poor parenting skills. I haven't picked up that you think this is the case but just to clarify, which do you think it is?

The sad fact is that the draconian tactics of the mother are probably the cause of most of the bad behaviour in the daughter. As a small toddler the girl will have accepted naturally the total control imposed on her fairly willingly. As long as it was done with love and kindness, it IMO would be the right way to bring her up while she was so young. However, as she grew up her natural desire to assert her own personality and ideas start to show through. The whole stealing/lying is imo a symptom of her struggle to control elements of her life. She has so little slack when her actions are known, that she is reduced to rebelling to find any level of independance. This will only get worse and worse as she grows older. The mothers desperate attempts to control every thought and movement will be equalled by the girl fighting with 'behind her back tactics' in equal measure. It is not the kid being naughty. More about her being repressed.

I will give you an example..... to do with the fussy eating. When my kids were around that age, they developed a fussy attitude to food, when the previously had eaten pretty well. Initially I tried the tactics of letting them go without, rowing, making a big deal out of it. They got worse. They refused to try anything new, started to refuse stuff they previously liked and meals turned into a battle ground. Eventually I decided that this tactic didn't work. So I got cunning! I told them that they were both entitled to dislike a certain number of foods (individual not food groups, I think we settled on a 'list of 10 things) that I would promise they never had to have... they thought they were onto a winner at this point! They chose some things to go on the list. The inevitable new food was put on their plate and to start with they said ' I don't like that'. 'Hmm, what food do you want to swap it with from your list then?' was the response (and if a swap ensued they got that food in the next 2 days!) and after a couple of these occasions they realised that I was not going to cave and allow more than the designated 10 items. The fact that they felt they had some control over truly hated foods stopped the rebellion in its tracks. They began to try new things and very soon were eating pretty much anything I gave them. In hindsight it was the lack of control that bothered them rather than the food itself

Parenting an older child is a very different thing to that of a young one..... much more subtlety and sneekiness is required!

Talk to your brother if you can, before it gets out of hand

ska_lover

Humphrey10 wrote: »

!!!!!! what is it with people like you? A bit harsh for a beggining line! Would you force vegetarians to eat meat? No one mentioned vegetarians, Totally off on a different tangent here aren't you... Would you force people to eat things that are not universally popular like tripe, sushi, haggis, etc? Would you force Muslims and Jews to eat pork? Are some choices allowed (eg not eating meat, or spicy food) whereas other are not (eg, not eating basil), or is no-one allowed any choice at all?

I don't get where people like you get your ideas about food from. And here you continue on a different tangent further Every single restaurant I have been to in my life offered a choice of food. Every supermarket or food shop I have ever been in has offered a choice, most even offer multiple versions of the same food eg different types of apples. Why would they do this if everyone was happy to eat any old thing? Resturants and supermarkets can afford to offer different foods they have MULIT MILLION POUND BUDGETS- many families are on a very tight budget. Many mother work so they do not have the time. I doubt very much that as a family of five they can afford luxuries like visits to resturants on a regular basis.

Everyone has some foods they prefer over others, and many people have foods they cannot eat for various reasons - taste, texture, spiciness, type of food (meat etc). There are many things i prefer, for example if I a millionairre I might fancy steak and chips every night - but in the REAL world, these things are a rare treat as steak is expensive, and I have to make do with egg and chips. It is a harsh lesson in life that you cannot always get what you want.

What exactly is your problem with people who want a choice of food?

I know this is not aimed at me, but this is rather harsh and felt the need to respond.

RuthnJasper

OK. I'm coming to this post for the first time today and won't get involved in the ongoing debate, as that might not be helpful to the OP.

Children need to learn boundaries and respect for authority. Unfortunately, so do some adults. It sounds to me, as an impartial bystander, that this young child is trying to draw attention to herself by whatever - by any means - she can. Somewhere along the line, she feels that she is being ignored and neglected (whether rightly or wrongly) in favour of her younger siblings. What she needs is reassurance and affection, not harsh punishment.

I have suffered from my parents' extreme religious beliefs. My brother and I were beaten for such things as giggling at the meal table, watching "unsuitable" TV programmes like Grange Hill, Top of the Pops, Dr. Who, etc. and for saying that we didn't want to go to church... My brother dealt with it by kow-towing to their views. I, however (perhaps because I have an unusually high IQ and was therefore more able to appreciate alternative viewpoints or, more likely, because I suffered s£xual abuse at the hands (etc.) of one of the sons of their church-friends and their way of dealing with it was to say that I was a liar; such a thing could not have been possible; I made it up to draw attention to myself; etc.), could not accept it. And I was left in no doubt that I am a major disappointment and failure in their eyes.

Anyway, enough of that. Leave-off discussing things with the parents, they will neither appreciate nor, perhaps, even listen to your views and you will be perceived as "one of the enemy". Write to your niece in general terms - maybe just to ask her if she is going to see the last 'Harry Potter' film, or ask her what she thought about the Royal wedding and the bride's dress. Keep it light and informal. Praise her good qualities and talents and (maybe) gently hint that you are sad when you hear about the naughty things she has been doing and you know that she is capable of better things than that. As things gently progress, just let her know that you care about her, you think she is a nice girl and that she can talk to you if ever she has a problem. I had a great-aunt (now-deceased ) who saw there was a problem with me and did exactly that. She helped me to see that, despite everything, my mum and dad DID love me in their own way and, moreover, there WAS someone in the world who respected and valued what I had to say and my opinions. That meant - and continues to mean - SO much to me.

You have the potential to do MUCH good with this young lady - how lucky she is to have such a caring Uncle. Just be there for her (and, goes without saying really, keep it appropriate so the parents cannot accuse you of anything improper).

Good luck to you and the troubled little girl. xx

meds12_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I can't see anything unfair. Punishing someone until they are genuinely sorry is not so much old fashioned as mistaken.

Completely disagree. A fair but strict punishment which takes the wind out of the child's sails (can be verbal or time-out based or even a light smack), followed by a sincerely spoken apology on their behalf, followed by a discussion into what exactly was the problem with their behaviour and then (and this is important!) a positive "bigging up" of the child, focussing on their innate goodness, works very, very well.

I agree with the poster that said time-outs and refusal to make extra dishes are not excessive, however the language that is used (calling the child a "manipulative cow") and the lack of outings I find completely inappropriate.