Teenage (unplanned) pregnancy

Plans_all_plans

EdgEy wrote: »

What saddens me is seeing children with a deprived upbringing due to lack of money, bad environment, etcetera.

Here is an example of why I wish the father was given more of a say in his unborn child's fate. I can understand this man's sentiment - he has had his choice in becoming a father taken away from him.

Hopefully he will come round, and your family seem very supportive. Best of luck.

I don't think your post was intended as a tirade against single mums on benefits. I just had to say though, that in my experience, the sort of parents who deprive their children of a good upbringing while on benefits, are the sort of people who couldn't parent properly if you gave them £10 million! Lack of money and emotional, spiritual and physical deprivation do not always go hand in hand.

On the 'fathers becoming fathers against their will' subject: these men are not stupid, they KNOW they don't have the final say on terminations. If they can't cope with the fact that having sex MAY lead to them fathering a child, then they shouldn't be having sex. It's really that simple.

Derivative

The problem is that statistically, your post is untrue. There are exceptions, and the odd child with a poor upbringing manages to 'make it', climb the ladder, become well educated and get a good job. They are the rare gems though.

Parents do the best they can, but if you haven't had time to prepare adequately - the best isn't always good enough.

If you are interested in social mobility, I suggest you read this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unjust-Rewards-Exposing-Inequality-Britain/dp/1847080936

If you ignore the 'banker bashing', it has a lot to say on the subject of children's upbringing and the role that has in later success.
I believe the book was written before the recent crisis and the commentary on that issue tacked on to sell the book.

Plans_all_plans wrote: »

On the 'fathers becoming fathers against their will' subject: these men are not stupid, they KNOW they don't have the final say on terminations. If they can't cope with the fact that having sex MAY lead to them fathering a child, then they shouldn't be having sex. It's really that simple.

That is true enough, but that to me is a deficiency in the law.

The suggestion is that women may have sex without worrying about pregnancy, while men must consider the fact they could be forced into paying for a child they did not want. The Child Support Agency (inefficient as it is) will pursue the man throughout the child's young life.

I am not advocating forced terminations. That would be quite frankly inhumane.
A solution I can think of is giving men the right to withdraw parental responsibility before the legal termination limit.

I would welcome any other suggestions. It is surely unfair that women can shape their own destiny in a way that men can't.

ellay864

I've followed all this thread but not commented before but I had to say I'm so pleased that you're all so happy with the decision your daughter has made. I've just become a first-time auntie as of yesterday morning and when I heard my brother was going to be a dad I had very mixed feelings. He's not a kid...he's in his 40s and his gf is in her 30s but for the problems he's caused he might as well be some mad teen! He was chucked out of school at 15, used to drink and beat my mum who got an injunction against him for about 2 years when he was late teens, never held down a proper job...did eventually settle and marry but had no sense at all with money and then got into drugs. His wife left him a couple of years back, ironically after he'd finally got off the drugs, and that left him homeless - he has reconciled with mum but she's in a 1 bedroomed bunglaow sheltered housing so he couldnt stay with her. He met his gf while he was in a hostel. They have a small studio flat, she doesn't have a job, he only has occasional work and it seemed like madness to bring a baby into the world. This was planned - she did get pregnant accidentally last year but miscarried and they were determined to have a baby after that. To be totally honest I thought that the miscarriage might have been a blessing in disguise and that they needed their heads feeling to deliberately try for a baby. But just hearing him yesterday after their son was born, and again this afternoon as they've come home made me realise that it really doesn't matter that they're not in the perfect setting...the baby is wanted and loved and they have a lot of friends around them who will help. I had my 2 sons in what I thought was a happy loving marriage, no financial worries etc...by the time they were 7 and 5 their dad hed left me for another woman! You just have no way of knowing what's round the corner and with all the amazing support you and your wife are giving your daughter her and her baby will have a great start in life
Reading your story and all the other posts on here have been incredibly moving. I wish you all the very best as you go through the journey of her pregnancy together x

make_me_wise

EdgEy wrote: »

There are many others stuck on their own, relying on state benefits or in low paid jobs. Worry not for them, they chose the situation - it's the children I feel sorry for.

EdgEy wrote: »

Please don't see my post as a tirade against low income parents, those on benefits, etcetera. That is not my issue.

These two quotes by yourself completely contradict each other. Please dont tell me how to see your posts.

You seem very opinionated on this thread but what you write has very little substance.

Plans_all_plans

EdgEy wrote: »

The problem is that statistically, your post is untrue. There are exceptions, and the odd child with a poor upbringing manages to 'make it', climb the ladder, become well educated and get a good job. They are the rare gems though.

Yes, children from poorer families are more likely to have less in their adulthood, in terms of material acquistions and wealth: I didn't deny that in my post. I spoke about "emotional, spiritual and physical deprivation", which is infinitely more damaging for a child to experience than lack of worldly goods.

ETA: in addition, a 'good job' is not the be all and end all. I would rather have a son who was a roadsweeper and happy, than a brain surgeon who was stressed!

Derivative

make_me_wise wrote: »

These two quotes by yourself completely contradict each other. Please dont tell me how to see your posts.

You seem very opinionated on this thread but what you write has very little substance.

I can see reading the first quote that it is rather unclear, my apologies.

I do not believe those on low incomes or claiming choose their situation - they can influence it yes.

Having children is the choice, and choosing to have children with inadequate resources is not fair on them.

Derivative

Plans_all_plans wrote: »

Yes, children from poorer families are more likely to have less in their adulthood, in terms of material acquistions and wealth: I didn't deny that in my post. I spoke about "emotional, spiritual and physical deprivation", which is infinitely more damaging for a child to experience than lack of worldly goods.

And my point is that in poorer families, the latter is far more likely. Especially in single parent families, when it is often impractical to do many of the things that help a young child to learn about the world around them.

As I said earlier, "private education, house deposit, money to go for internships, trips out, books, etcetera" - while some of these things may be material possessions, education, books and trips out are surely things which enrich the spirit. Not being able to pay for sporting kit would be an example of physical deprivation.

It is not simply about "material acquisitions". Education is the first and most important thing. Job matters not. If you are uneducated, the only happy life you can live is one of ignorance - something I wouldn't wish upon my enemies.

My main point is that you can choose when to have children. If you're working your way up in your career and an "accident" happens, I really don't see a reason to just let it be, rather than wait five years and have secure foundations in place.

Lirin

I'm sure some of the above comments would be better off as a separate debate- I think Taxi would maybe like to concentate on their very special time....

Taxi, congrats on your first Easter as a grandad.

Derivative

Lirin wrote: »

I'm sure some of the above comments would be better off as a separate debate- I think Taxi would maybe like to concentate on their very special time....

Taxi, congrats on your first Easter as a grandad.

Indeed, my apologies for rather hijacking the thread.

I wish you the best.

postingalwaysposting

Wonderful news, congratulations to all of you :j Please keep us updated, and if you start a new thread please post a link here Take care, and make sure she and your wife doesn't spend too much :rotfl: