Left lane for left and straight on, right for right?

Inactive

DirectDebacle wrote: »

As usual you are unable to explain your incorrect assertions so resort to your old ploy of trying to change the subject. I haven't seen a post from Cajef, or anyone else for that matter, supporting your interpretation of a picture or the words used in Rules 184,185 and 186 of the H.C.

I suggest that you take some basic driving lessons, you obviously do not have a clue.

As I suggested before, stick with what you know.

Strider590

And failing that, always make sure you get in the last word

birkee

Haven't read all the posts because of time and quantity, but:-

The rules of the road are, common sense, and drive like everyone else is an idiot, and will do the irrational.

Don't take offense if you're not an idiot, I'm talking about how you should drive to protect yourself.

almillar

DirectDebacle, I take your point about mixing advanced and L plate driving, but I don't really see anything wrong with it TBH.
Anyway, We have to assume that there are no road markings at this roundabout, and there is no sign with special instructions. Under those circumstances, it is very clear that the red line is incorrect, and you can see from the diagram why, you'll hit someone taking the correct course of the green line.
Your example of a big slow HGV isn't representative, and is a really unlikely example, and if you want to use the advanced driving excuse, then I would say that you're meant to be setting an example - what sort of an example does that set.
I legitimately use the 'outside' lane to overtake all the time, whether that be hitting the brakes later, watching for the sequencing of lights and being quicker away etc, but the bottom line is that you should not be in the right lane to go left under the vast majority of circumstances.

DirectDebacle

almillar wrote: »

DirectDebacle, I take your point about mixing advanced and L plate driving, but I don't really see anything wrong with it TBH.
Anyway, We have to assume that there are no road markings at this roundabout, and there is no sign with special instructions. Under those circumstances, it is very clear that the red line is incorrect, and you can see from the diagram why, you'll hit someone taking the correct course of the green line.

Interesting point. Driving at any level requires the number 1 priority is safety. I would not take the red line if there was any possibility of a RTC occurring. I think you would and I certainly would take the best line to enter and exit any roundabout having regard to all the circumstances prevailing at the time.

For example approaching that roundabout when there was no other traffic present then the red line is the better course to take in my opinion.

There is no contravention of the H.C.

Your example of a big slow HGV isn't representative, and is a really unlikely example, and if you want to use the advanced driving excuse, then I would say that you're meant to be setting an example - what sort of an example does that set.

The example of the HGV, I agree is not usual but does occur from time to time.

I cannot read minds so can't comment on what other drivers may make of witnessing such a manoeuvre. I would expect that few if any drivers of vehicles in the same lane and behind the HGV would even see it. Their view would be very limited by the HGV. A driver behind me may or may not be impressed. What they would see is someone making progress safely because they are fully aware of what is happening around them and making good use of the information at their disposal. I don't see that as setting a bad example.

There is no contravention of the H.C.

Many drivers execute a similar manoeuvre but not at roundabouts. For example two lanes of traffic at traffic lights. HGV, bus or whatever and a quicker vehicle next to it waiting for the lights to change. The road ahead narrows from two to one lane and when the lights change the quicker vehicle gets ahead and safely gets in front of the other and feeds into the single lane. Pretty much what you can do at a roundabout as long as it safe and the conditions permit it.

I legitimately use the 'outside' lane to overtake all the time, whether that be hitting the brakes later, watching for the sequencing of lights and being quicker away etc, but the bottom line is that you should not be in the right lane to go left under the vast majority of circumstances.

I agree and the vast majority of the time I am not. Neither have I advocated that is the normal way to negotiate roundabouts. My posts in respect of this were not advising people to do this but a description of what I would consider. I am sure you are making such assessments as you drive and deciding what is the safest and most progressive way for you to continue your journey. Traffic conditions change almost continuously and you will be re-assessing them accordingly.

I am not against teaching a novice advanced techniques but it was a bad idea to mention them on this thread as it has caused some confusion. However the upside is that you have engaged in sensible debate which is a nice change to the unreasoned opinions and childish remarks which are occasionally made.

I think we would agree on far more than we would disagree.;)

Inactive

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Interesting point. Driving at any level requires the number 1 priority is safety. I would not take the red line if there was any possibility of a RTC occurring. I think you would and I certainly would take the best line to enter and exit any roundabout having regard to all the circumstances prevailing at the time.

For example approaching that roundabout when there was no other traffic present then the red line is the better course to take in my opinion.

There is no contravention of the H.C.



The example of the HGV, I agree is not usual but does occur from time to time.

I cannot read minds so can't comment on what other drivers may make of witnessing such a manoeuvre. I would expect that few if any drivers of vehicles in the same lane and behind the HGV would even see it. Their view would be very limited by the HGV. A driver behind me may or may not be impressed. What they would see is someone making progress safely because they are fully aware of what is happening around them and making good use of the information at their disposal. I don't see that as setting a bad example.

There is no contravention of the H.C.

Many drivers execute a similar manoeuvre but not at roundabouts. For example two lanes of traffic at traffic lights. HGV, bus or whatever and a quicker vehicle next to it waiting for the lights to change. The road ahead narrows from two to one lane and when the lights change the quicker vehicle gets ahead and safely gets in front of the other and feeds into the single lane. Pretty much what you can do at a roundabout as long as it safe and the conditions permit it.



I agree and the vast majority of the time I am not. Neither have I advocated that is the normal way to negotiate roundabouts. My posts in respect of this were not advising people to do this but a description of what I would consider. I am sure you are making such assessments as you drive and deciding what is the safest and most progressive way for you to continue your journey. Traffic conditions change almost continuously and you will be re-assessing them accordingly.

I am not against teaching a novice advanced techniques but it was a bad idea to mention them on this thread as it has caused some confusion. However the upside is that you have engaged in sensible debate which is a nice change to the unreasoned opinions and childish remarks which are occasionally made.

I think we would agree on far more than we would disagree.;)

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Dress it up however you like, if you made a left turn from the right approach lane on a standard layout roundabout you would fail a standard driving test, let alone an advanced test, the rules are the same, it is only the level of experience that is different.

I suggest further driver training.;)

Wig

Inactive wrote: »

Check out the diagramme / picture in the Highway Code, that is exactly what is shown and is correct.

It is no use quoting " local knowledge " many drivers do not have that benefit.

This is simply not the case, if it was as you say it they would say it in writing and make it as clear as day. The diagram is just an illustration of a possible scenario, note there are two exits on the exit in the diagram someone could legitimately approach in right lane go straight across and if on exit there is someone to their left they could take the right lane on exit. But there is no diagram path of travel to show this, because they want to keep it simple.

They could also quite legitimately do that if there was only a single exit lane but the person on the right must always give way to the person on their left unless they are completely infront of them, not alongside..... (or their name is Strider )

Wig

DirectDebacle wrote: »

I have read the H.C. and understand it. It explains what, as a road user, you must/must not do (the law), what you should/should not do (strongly advises you follow it, but not illegal if not followed) these rules are indicated clearly in the H.C. and finally other advice which you may or may not choose to follow.

Not all laws are written down. Case law will be decided on the advice given in the HC - and has been created on this very subject.

Bottom line if you do that red line and you have a bump with the green car, you will be found liable 100% each and every time. Because judges work on the advice given in the HC. I think you could also get yourself prosecuted for careless driving if a policeman saw you.

DirectDebacle

Wig, I don't see your point. Almost all RTC will incur a breach of the H.C. The debate has been about interpreting the meaning of the H.C. and in particular Rule 186.

I agree that under most circumstances the red line course would not be the best but on some occasions it will be. That is why Rule 186 which relates to signals and position is not a should rule but suggestions as to what else the driver may consider. Therefore taking the red course is not an automatic breach of the H.C.

Similarly it is not necessary to always signal on a roundabout.

Wig

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Wig, I don't see your point. Almost all RTC will incur a breach of the H.C. The debate has been about interpreting the meaning of the H.C. and in particular Rule 186.

I can't make the point any clearer, there is case law already on traversing roundabouts, and the judges took into account the guidance given in the highway code. Basically my point is IMHO a judge will rule against the red car each and everytime, because of the clear and unambiguous instructions given in the HC. The judges interpret the RBt as "a road" with two or more lanes (even if unlaned). If a person in the right hand lane cuts across the path of a person in the left hand lane so that a collision is unavoidable it will be the right hand car at fault, just as it would be on a dual carriageway.

I agree that under most circumstances the red line course would not be the best but on some occasions it will be. That is why Rule 186 which relates to signals and position is not a should rule but suggestions as to what else the driver may consider. Therefore taking the red course is not an automatic breach of the H.C.

The only exception would be if the left lane was blocked. But then you wouldn't have a green car would you, so that's why it would be OK. If you make the manouvere without incident and a policeman does not see you, fine. But if you have a bump, you will lose. If police see you, you may get a ticket.

Similarly it is not necessary to always signal on a roundabout.

No argument from me there. However not indicating, in the event of a collision could go against you.