Should grandparents help out?

mountainofdebt

I must admit, reading some of these posts, that my mum is literally a star.

She has never treated my sister or I differently - even when finances meant that in reality she shouldn't - and she hasn't treated any of her 4 grandchildren any differently either.

My sister may have a child care issue in March and my mum has offered to help although because of the distance that my mum has to travel, (and only because of the price of petrol) I did mention to mum that she should mention whether a contribution would be forthcoming.

Quite sadly (I think) my BIL's parents (who live alot closer) have refused to help and have openly admitted that my sister's eldest is the favorite grandchild out of their five - simply because he's the eldest.

moggylover

Fang wrote: »

Whose fault is that really? Your generation had a better standard of living than the one before you, they the one before them and so on and so forth. Is it really so surprising that each subsequent generation wants to move forward and not backwards? You didn't, why should we?

The Baby Boomers have had a golden life - it may not have been easy, but they've certainly been overly rewarded through more good times than bad. But ask yourself this - did you have an indoor toilet in your first home? My grandmother did, and her mother decided that because of that my grandmother had 'ideas above her station' and wasn't willing to play the cards that she'd been dealt.

It all comes down to a trade off - yes this (my) generation have certain aspects of life easier and more 'luxurious' if you like than yours and you can thank the falling price of goods from countries like China for that. But crucially it's unlikely that a single person working as you did would be able to afford to buy their own home now, never mind have a decent pension return without taking serious risks. And let's not get into the raping of the education system in this country - that is what your generation has done, but it isn't your generation that is suffering because of it - not yet anyway.

I think you have missed the point of my post altogether in rushing to Fatballz defence actually Fang:)

My point is, that if Fatballz and his partner have a joint income of £70K, then they can afford to buy a house in the UK: not necessarily the house they want, but a house. They could have saved BEFORE getting to the stage of having children (either singly or as a couple) and then they would have been able to have afforded to save a lot more, and buy a better house because they would not have had to afford childcare (even government subsidised - which it wasn't in my day;)) and they could then have taken the time to put that house in the order they wanted (I always bought do-it-uppers because that made them cheaper in the first place) before they had their children. That they are still trying to save up for a home now, with the children already in place could be seen to be extremely bad planning for people purportedly well educated enough to be earning fairly reasonable salaries:)

However, to reply to your post as stands. I have studied the geneaology of my family quite a good ways back. The ups and downs of that indicate that sometimes a generation does better than it's forebearers and sometimes it does not. It appears fairly random.

For instance, I am proud of the fact that my parents were extremely hard working, working-class. However, my maternal grandmother was one of six children who all attended private school, her father was a tennant on a smallholding on Crown property, and also owned a butchers shop and a "delicatessen" (not called that in those days, but home cured meats and fancy goods) and her mother had been a lady-in-waiting. My maternal grandfather came from a family of seven born to a family of mixed religion. His father was a Jewish tailor with his own business, and his mother a Catholic. When his father died when my grandfather was barely into his teens the family were reduced from comfortable "trade" middle class to poverty.

Further back there are squires on my fathers side, and indeed his own father came from a family well heeled enough to own quite substantial amounts of property and were local landlords.

I have a friend whose family are titled, but all that is left of the great wealth (stolen and [EMAIL="sh@gged"]sh@gged[/EMAIL] for and then gambled and drunk, as he puts it) is the title really. I have another friend whose father and grandfather were both barristers, and they both managed to own the kind of large houses in London that are now generally split into flats. Despite decent legacies from both of them, he was never able to achieve quite the same affluence as they were.

I agree entirely that house prices are vastly over-inflated in the SE of England and also in other pockets around the UK. However, this is not the fault of the boomers so much as the fault of an economy that has become more and more centralised on a few small areas of the UK, and thus movement to those areas has put too much pressure on prices there, as has immigration of the skilled kind that will obviously want to be where the work is.

I still don't think that many of this generation would be willing to live the way many of my own generation did in order to buy their own houses. Floor boards missing, deck-chairs for seating (longish term as well) and just a mattress moved from room to room whilst renovations took years to do was quite the norm, and such things as TV's and stereos were available quite cheaply but were considered non-essentials that you waited to "inherit" when a family member or friend could afford a new one, or that you picked up second-hand. Most things were mendable, and my lord did they get mended (much like Triggers broom in Fools and Horses):)

However, the one thing we DID have better was that there was more work, more variety of work, better working contracts and a better distribution of work around the UK, and yes, I would put the loss of that firmly at the feet of the minority of upper-middle-class, baby-boomers who orchestrated the wholesale destruction of that situation:)

moggylover

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I too absolutely agree with NEH, so that is four of us ducking.....

So do I so that makes five little ducks:)

shellsuit

Grandparents shouldn't be expected to do anything as it's not their job to.

If they want to and offer to then that's a different matter.

moggylover

elff wrote: »

Hubby took all 3 kids out to soft play this morning - 3 whole hours to myself :T:T:T:T:T:T

My son has also been refered for genetic testing for his problems, and my neighbour has agreed to look after his twin while we are in hospital so things are looking up for us.

I didnt realise how emotive a subject this would be?

I can accept my parents dont want to help with MY children but when i am so exhausted and low I find it diffucult to understand this when at the school gates / todlar groups there are so many grandparents collecting their granchildren and seem to enjoy them I dont underdtand why my parents dont.

My dd (4) asked me today when she grows up and gets married (to the little boy next door) they are going to have lots of babies (obviousley after she is established as a ballerina-vet )and if i really wanted i could have a cuddle with them.....

I cant wait

Elff, I'm so glad you got a bit of "you" time today:)

It does sound as if your mum is being just a tad mean if she won't just give you a break for a couple of hours, but some people don't enjoy little ones that much and there isn't much that can be done about that.

I was really lucky in that I had a mum who was really helpful (although she would not have agreed to childcare whilst I worked, that was a no-no as far as she was concerned) and also lots of help from my MIL. My mum would never have had my kids to stay with her mind, but MIL did when they were a bit bigger.

However, perhaps your mum might not be keen to be left all by herself with all 3 of them, but might agree to come over and keep you company with them and help a bit that way (my mum would play with them so that I could just get a bath or catch up on some jobs)?

Another thing that I found really helpful when my relationship broke up and I was totally exhausted was that my mum used to let me go and stay with her for the nights at the weekend, and my ex used to stay at my house with the kids. It really gave me a break (only from sort of 9ish on Friday night until early Sunday morning, but you might prefer just the one night if you want to be with DH). Even one nights sleep was a great deal of help and just being out of my house and away from the stress was a godsend. Mind, that does depend on whether you would actually enjoy the time with her, I loved being with my mum:o

Just thoughts that might help you, and make it possible for your mum to give a bit of help that she does feel able to, and thus ease some of your resentment.

ash28

FATBALLZ wrote: »

Yes they should, if they can. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when grandparents refuse their moral obligations to help their family out, but I guess typifies the 'me me me' attitude of that generation. When you have children you are agreeing to a lifelong obligation to help then out if reasonably possible, not just raise them to 16 and then wash your hands of them. If there's one thing we can learn from 'multiculturalism' its that certain other cultures put the British to shame when it comes to sticking together as families.

I believe the issues of extortionate childcare costs (our household income is over £70k and we can still only really afford one child in childcare), ludicrous housing costs etc make it all the more difficult for households where one or both of the parents has a job and increases the moral case for grandparents helping out.

I don't believe by any stretch of the imagination that grandparents should give up all their free time to devote to grandkids, however for example my parents look after my child one day (that is, abour 7 hours while we're in the office) a week, the rest of the week we pay a nursery to do that job. Other than that though we don't get much help from the grandparents, unfortunately they don't live locally and I feel it's a bit of a shame and makes parenting that bit harder. I know if I become a grandparent I'd want to help out if I could.

The trouble is for some of us the moral obligation goes only one way.

We have 3 grandchildren - 2 belong to my son and his partner and the 3rd lives with us and has done since he was a baby.

We are early retired - last October and are both 56 - but up until then had all the same problems with childcare that working parents have. GS went to a childminder.

If OH or I took time off work to look after him during the holidays we were often asked to have my son's 2 as well - we always said yes - and looked after them for as many days as they wanted. However, we were not and are not his partner's first choice or even 2nd choice when it comes to the girls - we are like the government being the lender of last resort. Her preferred option is her mother or her sister and we are asked if all else fails.

We (me) have always done any babysitting they have asked for - it would have often been easier to have them here overnight - we have plenty of room - but they have never stayed here overnight and they are 5 & 8 - they stay overnight with her family.

I can't treat them exactly the same as I do GS because we are bringing him up (and are stricter with him obviously, and have to provide everything for him) - but birthdays are the same and we buy their shoes, coats (always have done) and their school uniforms apart from bits and pieces throughout the year. They were here during the week for a couple of hours and we had "Where's Wally" books for them to take home. And I never go to their house empty handed - usually biscuits or something similar

They have had financial help when they have asked for it - this has usually been in the form of a "loan" because they usually ask if they can borrow money - though they never offer to repay anything and we would never ask, or to be honest expect them to repay it. His partner's family aren't in a position to give any form of financial help.

We are moving away from our little corner of the south east in the next 12 months to somewhere a bit quieter and with a better quality of life for the 3 of us - if I was closer to the girls I might have thought twice about it - but we aren't and aren't likely to be and that's not our choice, that's the choice of our son and his partner.

Saying all of that, we are close to our son and his partner, see a lot of them and the girls, but are a poor 2nd in the grandparenting stakes compared to his partner's family. I can understand that - women usually prefer to have their own family around and not their partner's. I don't have a problem with it but neither do I have a problem with moving away.and don't feel morally obligated to stay in case they need our help.

They haven't done any babysitting or helped us in any way with GS - I asked once or twice but help wasn't forthcoming. Calling iin sick or emergency holidays was the way we had to go if he or the childminder was ill. Holidays we could plan for, illness we couldn't.

8pnoodles

I have toddler twin boys and am exhausted too. One of them has cows milk and soy intolerance so I am still breastfeeding at 18 months as they can have no other milk. This means breastfeeding every couple of hours through the night, STILL.
I feel your pain.
Have you looked at food intolerances? I had to FIGHT my hv, GP, hospitals, etc to discover his issues. He was very irritable and would cry at anything. He didn't sleep unless breastfeeding all night long.
I was always told never to cut dairy from my diet by my hv as I needed it.
He was blood tested for allergies and came up negative. I kept being told his permanent irritability and crying was teething. Calpol didn't really work though.
An intolerance IS different to an allergy. Importantly an intolerance CANNOT be blood tested for, and it takes the child around 24-48 hours to have a reaction after eating the offending food. So they are not easy to spot, especially as toddlers usually have dairy constantly!
Finally I managed to cut ALL milk and soy (many milk intolerant kids are soy intolerant) for SIX WEEKS.
It takes 2-3 weeks for cows milk to leave a babies system, and double this if the mum is breastfeeding as it has to leave her system too.

WARNING: a child's symptoms will often get worse before getting better when trying an exclusion diet like this, so don't get discouraged if this happens (it took me a year to find this out!).

I don't think a lot of people on this thread get how bad twins with one sick one can be.
Our first year with the boys was horrendous. We are recovering slowly but I have lost a ton of weight and am covered in severe psoriasis and and struggling to get back to any normality. My DH is permanently stressed. He is in the forces and may be going away for six months soon. I am mildly terrified.
It is so hard when you are in the thick of things to try and get any help, as homestart, GPs, hvs etc all need energy to fight to get your point across.

Tigsteroonie

My parents live over 100 miles away. My MIL lives about 50 miles away but is disabled. I would not expect any of them to look after our son unless it was an absolute dire emergency (e.g. both of us in hospital).

It is something that I thought about when expecting, that we would only have BIL and one close friend within the same city, to give us a break - we've only had four nights out as a couple in the last year. I haven't had a single lie-in since we brought him home from hospital. But this is all exactly as I thought it would be I guess we're lucky that he only has a few minor problems, and is essentially an easy/relaxed baby.

My parents help out in other ways - they're always on the end of the phone/FB when I need advice, and they've bailed us out financially a couple of times. They're paying for a family holiday next month - 90yo great grandmother down to 18mo toddler - so that we can spend some time together. They might even babysit for an evening

I watched some good friends (back in Scotland) have difficulties in their marriage when she (doting grandmother) wanted to spend all her time visiting her children and taking care of the grandchildren, whereas he (grandfather) wanted to spend his retirement in peace running a little hobby-business. Their children would go on long expensive holidays abroad and expect the grandparents to babysit for weeks on end. My friends eventually moved back to the city, so I'm guessing that the grandmother's wishes won in the end.

shelley_crow

I have two sons who have one set of grandparents. I don't expect them to do anything, most of their time is taken up by their daughter and her husband's kids, who expects them to pick kids up from school, look after them, have them for the night so they can go out and so forth, even though the grandparents work full time themselves.

They take my eldest out very rarely and see both of our kids occaisionally, this is a bonus. I know that OH's sister and her family are very needy and demanding and it's not fair to add to this IMO. I'm currently a SAHM but when I go back to work part-time, DS will be going to an excellent child minder.

In regards to the housing situation, I wouldn't expect to be helped out just because some people really profited from the boom. I know my own parents did very nicely out of it. It's always been a dream to be a homeowner, I'd love to not have to rent and own my own house. We are cramped in where we are at the moment but the rent is cheap. We are looking to emigrate in around 2013, so we are saving for that. Of the few people I know of my age (25) who have mortgages, they were only able to get them with substantial parental contributions from one or both sets of parents.

andrealm

It seems a bit unfair if grandparents favour one set of grandchildren over another when it comes to helping out. If I was a granny, I'd like to think I'd be even handed when it came to helping out, unless of course there were exceptional circumstances like illness, when meant that one of them needed more help than the other.