termination or single parent? PLEASE HELP

Contains_Mild_Peril

normallysomeoneelse wrote:

I have kept an eye on this thread and felt better about my earlier post when I read 99 % of the posts but the post by Contains Mild Peril made me want to post again.

I don't feel that this post was at all helpful to the OP, the suggestion that she should perhaps view pictures of a 8 week foetus is at best insensitive and worse could be described as spiteful, both to the OP and to those who have been truthful and honest enough to describe their experiences.

I did not mean to be insensitive, and certainly not spiteful. I think it's important for someone facing possibly the most important decision they'll ever make in their lives to be in a position to make a fully informed choice. Whether one chooses termination or carries the baby to term, they can't change their mind afterwards, so I would contend that it's best to research both options as thoroughly as possible.
I was careful to choose a site which is factual in nature rather than pro or anti abortion. The pictures are the same sort of thing which might be viewed in a school biology class, but if you'd rather not look at them for whatever reason then don't click on the link.

The passive threat that the OP might remain childless is an example of the worst form of emotional blackmail that I have read on this forum.

Emotional blackmail? Have I missed something? I genuinely wish the OP's friend a happy life whatever happens, and if she wants to be parent later in life then I hope it will happen for her. Life doesn't always work out according to plan though. The opportunity of parenthood is presenting itself now, and may do so again in the future, or maybe not. I mentioned it because it's heartbreaking to hear the regrets of those who never got another chance at parenthood when they would have wanted it, and sadly, it does sometimes happen.

Also the suggestion that a termination based on the OP situation would be unlawful is unkind and likely to cause extra worry and stress, which at this time is the last thing that the OP or anyone in her situation would need.

It's a legitimate consideration. Some doctors will sign the form almost automatically on request, but others will ask questions about the pregnant woman's mental state, and will want to know whether they actually fulfil the legal medical criteria. There may be those who consider the law and its application unkind, but it does exist, and there are vast differences in the way different medical professionals interpret it.

This is a very emotive subject and of course people are allowed to express their own views but I feel given the sensitive nature of this debate, this post is out of place.

I appreciate that it is a very sensitive and emotive issue, and I have deliberately refrained from being too explicit in expressing my own personal moral views. Though I accept that some bias is evident in my earlier post, I do not seek to attack or demonise those whose views differ from my own. I have no intention of using this thread to argue about the rights and wrongs of abortion per se, nor would I expect anyone else to do so.
The OP's friend is lucky to have people around her who care about her and who will support her whatever happens. I wish her all the best for the future.

davsidipp

Contains_Mild_Peril wrote:

I would only suggest that if she really really couldn't cope at all, otherwise it's just not worth the risk. I've heard far too many horror stories about parents turning to Social Services for short-term help and never getting their kids back.
Since she's lucky enough to have supportive family and friends, there's no reason it should come to that.
From what's been said on this thread, it seems clear to me that the pregnant mother is not one of those who (as her ex seems to imply should be the case) can regard termination as a belated form of contraception and simply get on with their lives afterwards as though nothing happened. If she already knows she would feel very guilty about it, then she would probably spend the rest of her life regretting it, especially if, for whatever reason, she should finish up childless. I don't think she actually has a valid reason for an abortion under British law anyway: it doesn't sound to me as though having a baby would be a greater risk to her health than having an abortion.
Her ex does not deserve a child, and since he's indicated he doesn't want this one, I'd advise her to try to have as little to do with him as possible. His current girlfriend doesn't need to know if your friend can manage without his financial support for the child and if he has no plans to take any active part in the child's upbringing. I'd advise her to ask him not to contact her again, and tell him it's her decision, and if he doesn't want to be a dad he should just go away and leave her to raise the child alone. If he wants to talk things over, I'd suggest doing so in the presence of his new girlfriend or not at all! If he wants to keep it a secret from her he should be willing to back off.
If she does decide to ask for a termination, she should find out as much as possible about the procedure, and the stage of development of the foetus especially if that makes a difference to how acceptable the option of termination would be to her. Pictures here show babies at 8 and 10 weeks gestation as well as later stages.

was quite upset at your post where you gave a link to see stages of feotus most uncalled for as you can see by my post earlier my daughter had an abortion which was an early one and was not by no means a form of contreception. what this lady needs is advice not preaching.

normallysomeoneelse

uh? I didn't see that at all. I thought the post was perfectly logical and not at all spiteful in tone. That it is biased against abortion as a moral choice I can't deny, but you can't just decry that as spiteful or viscious or even out of place just because it might hurt your feelings."

I did realise when writing my last post that I would ignite further debate, and I haven't been surprised by the additional posts.

Although to Brandnewday, my termination was some 18 months ago and I was far from hurt by Contains Mild Perils post, I felt that the post was insensitive to the OP and her friend, and I stand by my reaction.

The thread was not about the morality of pro life debate / anti abortion debate, if it were then some of the content of CMP post would have been relevant and I would think that it would have been one of the more sensitive pro life posts.

It was also not my intention to offend CMP, however most of the subsequent posts seem validate the point that I was making, I have also under this new login have several private messages sent to me supporting my post and saying that I have been brave to make the points that I did.

Having been in a similar position to the OPs friend, I can with experience tell you that it was a emotionally charged, terrible time in my life, you do nothing but eat, drink, sleep the situation if you can do any of those things at all, in that context CMP post was out of place.

That was the point that I was making, the fact the the OP had sought advice on a forum like this means that any decision by her friend is not being taken lightly, and therefore I believe it will be a fully informed decision, that can be made without the need to look at the pictures of an 8 week foetus. Including a link to such a website, whwn people have been brave enough to confess that they had had a termination is appalling, the later comment don't look if you don't want to see is again insensitive. I am sure like most people who did take this decision, I did my share of internet searching and was confronted by such pictures and very extreme prolife views, I can in hind sight say that they made what was a traumatic time worse, and would suggest that such material is avoided, as those images can stay with you for a very long time and make the process of moving on harder.

I fully appreciate the point of view of CMP, my second post was not because I was offended or hurt, I have fully comes to terms with my decision and stand by what I did, but this post was not about me, it was about a young women, making one of the hardest decisions of her life and I feel what the OP was looking for was the experiences of those who had had a termination and those who her kept a child whilst being single. The OP did not ask for peoples moral views on the subject.

I hope that this clarifys my earlier post, and again I meant no personal offence to CMP. I am also sure that CMP best wishes to the OP and her friend were heartfelt.

Nicki

I think CMP has made a valid contribution to the debate, and those who have posted objecting to it, have only reinforced what she has said.

CMP has said, and I'm paraphrasing, that a termination is a traumatic procedure, and warned that if the OP's friend goes through with it, she may later come to feel considerable distress when she learns what her foetus would have looked like at the stage it was terminated. If the lady in question has another child in the future, she will undoubtedly come to discover what her foetus would have looked like, particularly if she has a nuchal fold scan between 10 and 13 weeks which is likely to be the stage at which she has this termination if she is now 8 weeks and still undecided as to what to do.

All CMP has said is that she should go into things with her eyes open, rather than to make the decision in a sanitised way, and suffer enormous emotional repercussions later. She didn't post links to pics of aborted foetus, give graphic descriptions of the procedure, and it is everyone's choice whether they choose to go through to the link or not.

The OP did ask for advice, and presumably therefore wanted to hear both sides of the story, and not just from those who had had a termination and felt that it was the right decision for them. The fact is that this is a painful and controversial decision to make, and when considering the effect that a decision to terminate may have on the OP's friend, it speaks volumes that a number of posters have found a straightforward and rational post on the subject, and the prospect of even a reference to the stage of development of the foetus, so unbearably painful even many years after their own experience.

It is for the OP's friend to decide whether to proceed with the termination or not, and it seems to me that what these posts, and particularly the last few posts have shown is that this is a decision which will affect her life for a long time to come - either because she has a child to look after, which she may see as a blessing or a burden, or because she may have a long period of mourning and guilt to contend with. No one can predict how she will react to a termination, but the OP has suggested in her posts that she is likely to find the procedure difficult to deal with on an emotional level.

Contains_Mild_Peril

davsidipp wrote:

was quite upset at your post where you gave a link to see stages of feotus most uncalled for as you can see by my post earlier my daughter had an abortion which was an early one and was not by no means a form of contreception.

I was not implying that anyone posting on this thread regarded abortion as belated contraception. I got the impression from the OP's posts that this seemed to be the ex's attitude, since it's been mentioned that he repeatedly tried to convince his ex that abortion is easy to go through with. If I have misrepresented his views then I would apologise to him for that, but he's still a scumbag imho. Even so, I am still willing to consider his needs as part of the bigger picture, as I indicated in my earlier post in which I suggested that his new girlfriend does not need to know about the baby if he doesn't want her to. It's my personal view that if his current relationship turns out to be a long-term one then he ought to tell her at some point, but I wouldn't want to "preach". Right now, the issue is that he is trying to pressurise his ex into abortion because he evidently feels that a baby would mess up his life, but that needn't be the case.

what this lady needs is advice not preaching.

I completely agree, which is why my original post contains exactly that (OK, so I was judgemental towards the ex, but I wasn't the only one, and since I assume he's not reading this thread, I don't consider that to be preaching). You might think it's bad advice, but we're discussing a complicated issue and obviously we're not all going to agree.
I'm sorry if you were upset by the link I provided, but as I said, it's factual information: the web page in question does not even mention abortion, far less express an opinion about it. As Nicki points out further down the page, the OP's friend may see images like these, possibly of a child of her own, in the future.

FZwanab

CMP, as far as I can see you were just highlighting one side of the story, which the op's friend should consider too, it should not be dismissed as it is a serious subject.

pickle

ftbworried - I'd normally say that the father has just as much say but in this case this fellow has had two previous partners who had to have a termination. I think in this situation he has been forewarned being his third time?!You'd think he'd use some protection by now.

Mizz_Pink

Hi,

First I think your freind is lucky to have you, you sound a very nice person.

First she needs to acknowledge that the father will not be supportive financially or otherwise so if she decides to keep the baby she will need help from her friends and family. Which doesnt sound like a problem.

I had a surgical abortion at 12 weeks, over 5 years ago. The dad didnt want children and although we were in a serious relationship I knew that it wasnt the right relationship to be in so it ended about a year later.

I'm now newly married to a wonderful man and we hope to start a family next year.

A termination is a difficult things to go through but I was ruled by my head and not by my heart. I lived at home, had a low paid shop job and my parents had already helped out my sister when she was pregnant (finding accom etc)

I think if she keeps the baby she will be fine, her dad will be supportive and you of course.

I wish her all the best.

A baby is such an amazing gift, 2 of my freinds are having trouble conceiving, one of them may never be able to conceive.

Keep us informed.
Email me through my profile if you or your freind wants to chat.

bargainbarmy

Anybody who has an aborton will probably regret it afterwards and will live with guilt for a long time. If a baby is not wanted why not put it up for adoption. There are so many childless couples who would love and care for it.

The old adage rings true about playing with fire ...you have to accept the consequences.

Mizz_Pink

bargainbarmy wrote:

Anybody who has an aborton will probably regret it afterwards and will live with guilt for a long time. If a baby is not wanted why not put it up for adoption. There are so many childless couples who would love and care for it.

The old adage rings true about playing with fire ...you have to accept the consequences.

I didnt regret it, nor did I feel guilty for a long time. It was a decision I made and I got on with my life afterwards.