Nibe Fighter 360p ashp costing me loads to run

Aceboyz

rhiwfield wrote: »

I'v read this thread (and many others) as I'm researching ASHPs for a possible home installation. In this case I sympathise for the people who have ASHP's that are not delivering, but I'm equally interested in the people who find ASHPs worthwhile.

I agree that economically ASHP's cost per kWh is prob worse than mains gas. But for those not on mains gas it may well be a viable option and not to be dismissed out of hand.

Totally agree in rural places you need something else but please i beg you not to get this Nibe system anything but this.

Aceboyz

ra200 wrote: »

It is just a shame that Melin our HA did not install solar water panels they have retro fitted them in a close down the road from use that would have brought our electriciry bill down a fair bit and solar works even when its cloudy outside and they would have fitted nice or the rear roof side of our house and then between may and october I could just swtich the nibe off and still have hot water but from may to october i have to but the nibe 360p on just for hot water it just seems VERY NON-eco friendly for a housing association to install the nibe with out solar water,


Solar Water & Electricity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SeOjxkGwic&feature=player_embedded

Or even installed solar electricity and the electricty bills would have dropped even more you can get solar electric installed free from swalec http://www.swalec.co.uk/BeingGreen/Microrenewables/SolarPV/

The thing that i can't get over is how the hell have you had the patients not to hit it with something extremely hard ra.

We moved into the new house early November and already i want to hurt it so bad. I,m not waiting until next winter to get shafted by this system again.

The only thing that stops me from ending in a cell with padded walls is the fact i can get on here and talk to you guys because everyone i speak to i.e. my side of the family just say oh it's just teething problems with a new house, how the hell can you class this as teething problems, Jesus Christ does everybody expect to move into a new house and pay nearly £200 a month for electricity - no i don't think so, not me anyway.

richardc1983

Aceboyz wrote: »

I would love to switch the useless piece of garbage off but when you have 3 kids and need hot water everyday your kind off stuck in a catch 22. We have though about buying heaters and switching it off but like i say hot water is so needed in our house.

Could you just not switch the heating off and use electric heaters and use the immersion for hot water until this is sorted? You should be saving something perhaps?

richardc1983

crphillips wrote: »

I've been reading this thread with interest. I don't have an ASHP but it was something we looked into as a side line to installing wood burning stoves. I thought that they would go hand in hand with an ASHP.

I'm glad I've found this thread as it is clearly not economically viable and it isn't just a single case. It seems that loads of you are having expensive bills.

Just as a comparison......I live in big 3 bedroom 400 year old farm house. The ceilings upstairs are vaulted with zero insulation. The walls are 2 foot thick stone. No cavity, no insulation. We have single glazing and also one fireplace pulling warm air out of the house. It's about as inefficient as you can get. We have a 25 year old inefficient gas combi boiler. It is on 24 hours a day 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Also the village we live in is in a dip and generally around 4 degrees colder than other areas around us. We got down to minus 17 in the cold spell!

Our gas bill for the period of 2nd September - 3 December was £336.

Enough said......get them ripped out and put a gas combi in. I'm sure if we had a newer....more efficient boiler it would be less than £300 a quarter!

I feel sorry for you guys..........it's a shame to be giving all that money just to stay warm. Hope you get it sorted!

Please dont write of ASHP's just because of this useless NIBE system. There are many other cheap and nasty systems out there. But if you have the system designed properly and a decent manufacturers system installed, eg daikin, mitsi, LG Altherma you will have a very good system.

Cardew

richardc1983 wrote: »

Please dont write of ASHP's just because of this useless NIBE system. There are many other cheap and nasty systems out there. But if you have the system designed properly and a decent manufacturers system installed, eg daikin, mitsi, LG Altherma you will have a very good system.

That is better re-phrased as might have a good system.

Do you think the results in the EST field trial of 19 ASHPs are good? - and that is with the manufacturers involved in the trial.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2968958

Also the people on MSE and other websites with well known systems that are a disaster. Huge consumption and cannot cope with cold weather!

People just shouldn't have to spend several thousand pounds on a system and take pot luck if it works properly.

Until the manufacurers and installers get their act together, get the systems working properly, and give some sort of guarantee of performance, people should be very wary of installing ASHPs; as we should about recommendations!

richardc1983

Cardew wrote: »

That is better re-phrased as might have a good system.

Do you think the results in the EST field trial of 19 ASHPs are good? - and that is with the manufacturers involved in the trial.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2968958

Also the people on MSE and other websites with well known systems that are a disaster. Huge consumption and cannot cope with cold weather!

People just shouldn't have to spend several thousand pounds on a system and take pot luck if it works properly.

Until the manufacurers and installers get their act together, get the systems working properly, and give some sort of guarantee of performance, people should be very wary of installing ASHPs; as we should about recommendations!

I disagree with the last bit Cardew, if installers did what they were supposed to do in the first place and size correctly and to the application required we wouldnt have these problems.

All the issues that people are experiencing are down to sizing issues or the equipment not being rated down to -15C.

For example the NIBE issue is a sizing issue it might work fine in a small 1 bedroom flat at mild temps but at UK climate and in a house its not going to do well at all as all the posts have said.

The problems with the well known and trusted brands of heat pumps are again down to how they have been installed or undersized for that application.

DOnt forget that the manufacturers do extensive testing on these units to find out what environments they can operate in and the capacitys they can provide... its then down to the installers/builders to size it and install it correctly.

Sizing a heat pump is very precise it has to be pretty much spot on there isnt much room for error. Size to small and it wont work simple as size too big and you will cause unessasary wear and tear as it will cycle off too quickly.

You can pretty much bang a gas boiler in and know a rough idea of what output you need as they have been round for years a heat pump works very differently and I dont think installers know how they quite work themselves... I think the manufacturers should be very specific on who they sell their equipment to but then again they are trying to make money so if the restrict it they are cutting themselves short but all these problems in the mean time is not giving them good publicity is it.

lovesgshp

Agree with you totally Richardc. Every pump we install here in Italy has to have a house thermal loading report for sizing purposes.

ra200

You can not do that is the water tank is inside the nibe so you have to turn the nibe on to use it,

richardc1983 wrote: »

Could you just not switch the heating off and use electric heaters and use the immersion for hot water until this is sorted? You should be saving something perhaps?

ra200

I stand by with I have found out from a lot of different sources and that is the Nibe 360p exhaust air pump is too small for our house that is why the compress is always running and the immersion heater is always cutting in, So if melin had installed a bigger external air pump they would not have me moaning at them.

Until I searched the net I did not realise there are loads out people out there with the same problem as me I did not know sooner as I have no one to compare the nibe system with as I live in the middle of a row of 3 houses and both neighbours said they have had high bills but one neighbour said she keeps the stats turned down in all the rooms and uses the electric fire most of the time and keeps it in autumn/spring mode and does not use it in the summer and the other neighbour said she also has high bills and tries to keep in is summer mode as much as she can and switches it off in the summer so I cannot compare my system to theirs plus although they signed for their houses the same day as us and had the keys the same day to both neighbours did not more in until months after us and the weather was warmer than,

The only way the problems can be corrected in our home is by

1. Melin installs a gas boiler and remove the nibe
2. Install a bigger external air pump and remove the nibe
3. Solar water panals so we have hot water may-oct so and turn nibe off in summer (but the nibe will still eat electric in the winter)
4. Install a glow worm clearly hybrid gas back up ashp http://www.glow-worm.co.uk/products/renewable-energies/new-clearly-hybrid/
5. We move house and let some one else have the problems.

I do not think any of the about will happen so the only option we have is to move out of this house if we do not want sky high bills,If i owned this house i would go for option 4 or option 2 or option 1 but i have no say as i do not own the house and i do not want to keep on to Melin home as i am sure they think im a pain right now

richardc1983 wrote: »

I disagree with the last bit Cardew, if installers did what they were supposed to do in the first place and size correctly and to the application required we wouldnt have these problems.

All the issues that people are experiencing are down to sizing issues or the equipment not being rated down to -15C.

For example the NIBE issue is a sizing issue it might work fine in a small 1 bedroom flat at mild temps but at UK climate and in a house its not going to do well at all as all the posts have said.

The problems with the well known and trusted brands of heat pumps are again down to how they have been installed or undersized for that application.

DOnt forget that the manufacturers do extensive testing on these units to find out what environments they can operate in and the capacitys they can provide... its then down to the installers/builders to size it and install it correctly.

Sizing a heat pump is very precise it has to be pretty much spot on there isnt much room for error. Size to small and it wont work simple as size too big and you will cause unessasary wear and tear as it will cycle off too quickly.

You can pretty much bang a gas boiler in and know a rough idea of what output you need as they have been round for years a heat pump works very differently and I dont think installers know how they quite work themselves... I think the manufacturers should be very specific on who they sell their equipment to but then again they are trying to make money so if the restrict it they are cutting themselves short but all these problems in the mean time is not giving them good publicity is it.

denial2010

richardc1983 wrote: »

I dont think installers know how they quite work themselves... I think the manufacturers should be very specific on who they sell their equipment to but then again they are trying to make money so if the restrict it they are cutting themselves short but all these problems in the mean time is not giving them good publicity is it.

You have hit the nail bang on the head as to where the problem is! To be able to be certified to install a Nibe System you go on a 1 day course in Chesterfield. That's it... One Day and you are qualified.

I don't hold Nibe responsible for my situation. I put full blame on the installation company (Taylor "Cowboy" Plumbing and Heating in Sudbury) and Persimmon Homes. Nibe were saying they are trying to get information from the house builders in terms of room size and insulation so the units can be configured correctly and these problems are avoided. However, house builders are not forthcoming with the information.