Boxing day tube strikes

lucylucky

"It is the union holding London to ransom, if only a fair rate for the job (no more than the average for a coach driver) was paid then fares could be slashed and/or far more spent on upgrades to the system."

I wonder what a "fair rate" for any job is?:cool:

ryantcb

does a coach driver have to fix the coach if it breaks down and get it moving? because the tube driver has to and does, daily. but it's still unskilled though huh?

Hammyman

ryantcb wrote: »

Unskilled job being a tube driver probably explains the near 6 months training and the yearly reassessments. If only all unskilled jobs where that easy to learn.

FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN THE REALITY OF THIS SO CALLED HARD 6 MONTHS TRAINING, HERE IS A DIARY FROM A TUBE DRIVER:
http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/dd-training.htm

So Ryan, is that 6 months purely nothing but driver training or are you actually doing work experience in that as well? I bet if you took out the work experience, a reasonably intelligent person could do the rest in a week.

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/dd-training.htm

Oh look, no it isn't. 3 weeks are on "company operating procedures" and it actually looks like the "6 month training" is in reality about 6 weeks with the rest being "familiarisation" of driving different trains. Whooptie do.

As for the 6 months, my electronics engineering was 2 years for a non-degree level course. Thats 2 years doing 35hrs per week solid doing nothing but learning and not even getting in any work experience. Oh and unlike yours it required more than a test in basic maths and english - it required a minimum of 5 O levels Grade C and above.

Unskilled and overpaid really?

Yes. Firstly you do a BASIC english and maths test to apply which, if its anything like the DWP, you could pass if you were illiterate and innumerate. You sit in a virtually fully automated tin can on a pre-designated route and merely have a few buttons to press and watch out for a few pretty coloured lights. Most decision making is removed from you, especially with the increasing automation. The handling of your vehicle does not change and you are not required to have to compensate for other vehicles impeding your route of travel. You have a team of people who watch over you and who can take over control of your vehicle. Whilst you may do 6 months training (although I'm quite skeptical as to how much is actual training and how much is "work experience" especially in the light of said quoted diary) most of it is backside covering health and safety. I would imagine that if you put it side by side with the Driver CPC for haulage that it covers similar things except the Driver CPC manages to do it in a week (mainly because it doesn't cover work experience),

I love this excerpt from a guy who was a London tube driver about his first experience of driving a tube which was done on a "Training Day" which is where people get to have a go at a different job on the Tube - a kind of "bring a mate to work" thing:

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/dd-training.htm

Departing from my home station early one morning saw me in the cab with the I/O, with him explaining to me the various bits of kit in the cab, what each did and explaining basic driving techniques. He asked, "Do you think you’ve got the hang of that?" to which I answered (somewhat uncertainly – there seemed so much to take in) "Yes, I think so" and was promptly told that I was then going to drive the thing for the rest of the trip.

I'd put that at 5 minutes FOR A COMPLETE NOVICE WHO HAD NEVER EVER HAD ANY EXPERIENCE OF DRIVING A TUBE AND HADN'T HAD ANY PRIOR TRAINING AT ALL....if only lorry driving was that easy - 99% of lorry drivers will have already got driving experience in a car. You won't find even the worst cowboy in haulage saying to an unlicenced driver who hasn't even got a provisional car licence and with no experience at all, which is exactly the position the person I quoted was in, "here's the keys, thats the steering wheel, there's 24 tonnes of steel on the back, you're driving and off we go". But apparently thats acceptable on the London Underground!!!

As regarding overpaid, you earn £10k a year more than nurses who do a whole load more training than a mere 6 months and who also have to deal with far worse on a daily basis than the "one under" which you may or may not get in your career.

And you're wanting a pay rise that takes you to the level of airline pilots. Do you honestly think its even on the same level?

geordieracer

scotsman4th wrote: »

No, the company just happen have put this into the pay deal.
Like the misconception they've automatically knocked back the 5.2%, it grows arms and legs then becomes fact in some peoples heads.

Really?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j-rjjz0B7fBOEmZmeYCy8oS2coQw?docId=N0281311293015467352A

Rail union snubs two-year pay deal
(UKPA) – 4 days ago
The biggest railway workers' union has rejected a two-year pay offer from Network Rail worth 5.2% next year, plus RPI inflation in 2012.
The Rail Maritime and Transport union said it would be holding further talks with the company to try to improve the offer for NR's operations and customer services staff.
RMT general secretary Bob Crow said: "With VAT going up to 20% in January, power and other utilities bills going through the roof and expectations that inflation will continue to rise, we are looking to make sure that we achieve a pay deal for Network Rail operational and customer services staff that protects and improves their standards of living in this time of economic and political instability.

So have they or haven't they automatically knocked it back then or are the press association lying to because its all a big conspiracy against the RMT?

ryantcb wrote:

does a coach driver have to fix the coach if it breaks down and get it moving? because the tube driver has to and does, daily. but it's still unskilled though huh?

Should you not be out on yoru picket line supporting your brothers? Or are you using today as an extra day off now?

Im at work. We have no trains but I still have to do it.

ryantcb

check your dates for the diary of a tube driver, The person who wrote that joined the company over 25 years ago and thats the account his experiences 25 years ago.

Why would I be on the picket lines when its boxing day we wanted off.

ryantcb

Rail union snubs two-year pay deal
(UKPA) – 4 days ago
The biggest railway workers' union has rejected a two-year pay offer from Network Rail worth 5.2% next year, plus RPI inflation in 2012.
The Rail Maritime and Transport union said it would be holding further talks with the company to try to improve the offer for NR's operations and customer services staff.
RMT general secretary Bob Crow said: "With VAT going up to 20% in January, power and other utilities bills going through the roof and expectations that inflation will continue to rise, we are looking to make sure that we achieve a pay deal for Network Rail operational and customer services staff that protects and improves their standards of living in this time of economic and political instability.

We are not network rail we are London Underground. That 5.2% was offered to you as much as me.

Next !

dacouch

geordieracer wrote: »

Should you not be out on yoru picket line supporting your brothers? Or are you using today as an extra day off now?

The "strike" is just a way of them getting an extra day off for the loss of just one days wages. They can get the triple pay and extra days holiday by working on Monday or Tuesday.

Funnily enough there are no pickets at any of the tube stations I have seen and what are the chances of further strikes about this boxing day issue...

mjm3346

ryantcb wrote: »

does a coach driver have to fix the coach if it breaks down and get it moving? because the tube driver has to and does, daily. but it's still unskilled though huh?

I have never said it is unskilled but a coach driver has far more to deal with on a minute by minute basis and depending on the coach company they would be expected to deal with breakdowns as well.

Hammyman

ryantcb wrote: »

does a coach driver have to fix the coach if it breaks down and get it moving? because the tube driver has to and does, daily. but it's still unskilled though huh?

They used to and they'll have a go wherever possible but the marches of modern engine management systems and electronic gearboxes put a stop to a lot of it. Many lorry drivers still do as well.

And you cannot fix every fault on a train, can you? No. You can merely fix a small amount of them, the same as a coach or lorry.

And it would appear that trains are poorly maintained if you're having to repair them after breaking down on a daily basis, according to your own words which I've left in the quote.

Hammyman

ryantcb wrote: »

Why would I be on the picket lines when its boxing day we wanted off.

Because you're supposed to be on strike?

If you're supposed to be rostered in at work today but are on strike however you are not at the picket line, do you actually realise you can be sacked? If you're not on the picket line, you're not classed as being in the strike but instead absent from duty.

Just a thought as you continue to post whilst allegedly on strike...