Boxing day tube strikes

PsiDOC

So you agreed via the union to work boxing day at single time?

Rolandtheroadie

Hammyman wrote: »

FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN THE REALITY OF THIS SO CALLED HARD 6 MONTHS TRAINING, HERE IS A DIARY FROM A TUBE DRIVER:
http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/dd-training.htm

So Ryan, is that 6 months purely nothing but driver training or are you actually doing work experience in that as well? I bet if you took out the work experience, a reasonably intelligent person could do the rest in a week.

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/dd-training.htm

Oh look, no it isn't. 3 weeks are on "company operating procedures" and it actually looks like the "6 month training" is in reality about 6 weeks with the rest being "familiarisation" of driving different trains. Whooptie do.

As for the 6 months, my electronics engineering was 2 years for a non-degree level course. Thats 2 years doing 35hrs per week solid doing nothing but learning and not even getting in any work experience. Oh and unlike yours it required more than a test in basic maths and english - it required a minimum of 5 O levels Grade C and above.



Yes. Firstly you do a BASIC english and maths test to apply which, if its anything like the DWP, you could pass if you were illiterate and innumerate. You sit in a virtually fully automated tin can on a pre-designated route and merely have a few buttons to press and watch out for a few pretty coloured lights. Most decision making is removed from you, especially with the increasing automation. The handling of your vehicle does not change and you are not required to have to compensate for other vehicles impeding your route of travel. You have a team of people who watch over you and who can take over control of your vehicle. Whilst you may do 6 months training (although I'm quite skeptical as to how much is actual training and how much is "work experience" especially in the light of said quoted diary) most of it is backside covering health and safety. I would imagine that if you put it side by side with the Driver CPC for haulage that it covers similar things except the Driver CPC manages to do it in a week (mainly because it doesn't cover work experience),

I love this excerpt from a guy who was a London tube driver about his first experience of driving a tube which was done on a "Training Day" which is where people get to have a go at a different job on the Tube - a kind of "bring a mate to work" thing:

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/dd-training.htm



I'd put that at 5 minutes FOR A COMPLETE NOVICE WHO HAD NEVER EVER HAD ANY EXPERIENCE OF DRIVING A TUBE AND HADN'T HAD ANY PRIOR TRAINING AT ALL....if only lorry driving was that easy - 99% of lorry drivers will have already got driving experience in a car. You won't find even the worst cowboy in haulage saying to an unlicenced driver who hasn't even got a provisional car licence and with no experience at all, which is exactly the position the person I quoted was in, "here's the keys, thats the steering wheel, there's 24 tonnes of steel on the back, you're driving and off we go". But apparently thats acceptable on the London Underground!!!

As regarding overpaid, you earn £10k a year more than nurses who do a whole load more training than a mere 6 months and who also have to deal with far worse on a daily basis than the "one under" which you may or may not get in your career.

And you're wanting a pay rise that takes you to the level of airline pilots. Do you honestly think its even on the same level?

Thats not bad, 3 days you've had that somewhere on your computer calling tube drivers unskilled and saying about a trained monkey.
I have to admit, i thought it was more fishing for a comparison between train driving and driving a lorry.
Still, you've got it out now.

torontoboy45

Hammyman wrote: »

The thing is, torontoboy, you're obviously TOO YOUNG to remember the 1970's when the unions brought the country to its knees coming out with a comment like that. I'll give you an idea - mountains of rubbish piled in the streets for months, intermittent electricity, empty shop shelves, assuming the shops themselves weren't closed, no mail etc etc.

And my generation, Thatchers children, remember the miners strike and what happened to a union who got too big for its boots.

Thanks to the mad protests of the unions in the 1970's which brought misery to the entire country for most of a decade and lost millions of peopel more people jobs than they saved - just look at BL for example, lots of people no longer support them when they're blathering on like they are in the tube strikes.

priceless. it's taken just 13mins for another 'blatherer' to respond in an attempt to 'educate'.
ftr: i joined the rail industry 32yrs ago. I'm a mainline driver and my union is ASLEF. within the co. I work for membership of the union is 100% with no closed-shop agreement or coercion. what does this tell you? the benefits of membership are worth having? or we're just a bunch of baying militants?
TUism has changed in attitude and approach over the past 30yrs; the days trotskyites running the show are long gone.

so which has evolved faster? trade unionism or the group of people who continue to whine on about union militancy 25yrs after the event?

I'd love to talk further but I work today and I'm due to book on in 30 mins for shunt duties - not that I'm whingeing, of course; it's in a contact I signed some yrs ago and one that I was happy with.

keep taking the daily mail.

Stigy

I'd hazard a guess that 90% of the people posting here that say things like "It's an unskilled job" and "All you have to do is push a lever back and fourth", have probably never worked on the railways, or indeed, never operated a tube train. Oh, that's right, it must be just like that, after all, some bloke said it was 25 years ago and made a diary about it!...Oh, and my mate who's a Lorry driver says it's a piece of p*ss to drive a train, so it must be...

ryantcb

PsiDOC wrote: »

So you agreed via the union to work boxing day at single time?

yes and when we did TFL agreed it would run a normal sunday service. They now want to run a more than full service with every single driver working. Think that changes the agreement ever so slightly.

torontoboy45

geordieracer wrote: »

I dont mind the collective bargaining at all - I have to deal with it with my staff at work so i fully understand this.

Why are you bring party politics into this again? The tories have not made this strike happen.

Ryan came on here trying to garner some sympathy for the reasons why he is striking, I cant give him that sympathy because they are trying to force LULs hand here by striking on one of the busiest shopping days of the year.

This has failed. And now no amount of arguing will dissuade people that his cause is a just one. He isnt even out on a picket line so just an excuse for them to stay at home another day. A strong union would have its members out on the picket line proving to the doubters that its nto a ploy for a nice day off work at home with the family. They havent done this so are making themselves look even more silly.

ah. another one and just as I'm putting my coat on (25mins to go -don't want to be rushing).

I thought ryan came on to tell his side of the story - a sort of 'take it or leave it' post.

he's under no obligation to join any picket; another 'take it or leave it'.

'thatcher's children' is a generic term, used to describe a generation born during her tenure of office. I would've thought you knew this.

must dash.

Rolandtheroadie

geordieracer wrote: »

Yep and they are mostly in the wrong too. Network rail staff have jusr been offered 5.2% which is possibly the biggest pay offer the whole industry will see this year and yet the RMT think this is not good enough so are going to ballot for strike action. Thats wrong true.

"The Rail Maritime and Transport union said it would be holding further talks with the company to try to improve the offer for NR's operations and customer services staff."

So whens the ballot taking place?

mjm3346

torontoboy45 wrote: »

ryan: I think you're wasting yr time on this thread - it's full of whingeing 'I have to do it so what's yr problem' types. most of them sound like 'thatcher's children' , unable to see the benefits of collective bargaining. anyone getting in their way has got to be pushed aside.

makes me wonder which group rates self-interest most; tube drivers or the frothers here.

It is the fare paying public who suffer because of the excessive pay and benefits tube staff receive. If they worked in an area where there was any competition or real choice for the passengers the tube would have been driven out of business years ago, as it is because of the monopoly situation they can get away with it.

torontoboy45

mjm3346 wrote: »

It is the fare paying public who suffer because of the excessive pay and benefits tube staff receive. If they worked in an area where there was any competition or real choice for the passengers the tube would have been driven out of business years ago, as it is because of the monopoly situation they can get away with it.

just time for a quick coffee and a look at the latest rant.

'monopoly situation'.

really?

er..cabs..buses..hire bikes from boris..walk.

those nasty tube drivers..

torontoboy45

mjm3346 wrote: »

It is the fare paying public who suffer because of the excessive pay and benefits tube staff receive. If they worked in an area where there was any competition or real choice for the passengers the tube would have been driven out of business years ago, as it is because of the monopoly situation they can get away with it.

oh, and if you're looking for a target to direct your anger at: take a quick look at the employer and wonder if they're pushing their luck (again) with their staff.

'employer good/staff bad'; jeez, what a mentality.