Boxing day tube strikes

alastairq

The thing is, torontoboy, you're obviously TOO YOUNG to remember the 1970's when the unions brought the country to its knees coming out with a comment like that. I'll give you an idea - mountains of rubbish piled in the streets for months, intermittent electricity, empty shop shelves, assuming the shops themselves weren't closed, no mail etc etc.

And my generation, Thatchers children, remember the miners strike and what happened to a union who got too big for its boots.

Thanks to the mad protests of the unions in the 1970's which brought misery to the entire country for most of a decade and lost millions of peopel more people jobs than they saved - just look at BL for example, lots of people no longer support them when they're blathering on like they are in the tube strikes.

Unfortunately, yet another one who could not see the wood for the trees.

And probably genuinely believed what the media [under political influence] wanted them to believe.

The Miners' Strike could have been resolved very early on.

Margaret Thatcher...having been voted into power on the back of an anti-Union ticket....had to defeat the miners' Union [especially Scargill]...or bust.

British Leyland did not fail singularly or collectively because of Union action.

It would have done so...probably more spectacularly, even if the workforce had indeed been the most compliant ever.......BL's failure stemmed primarily from gross mis-management...and was symptomatic of all the UK's old-established heavy industry....that wasn't US-managed anyway..and even the US managements got it wrong.....as we currently see with Ford and GM-as-was.

Yes..I remember the 3-day week, petrol rationing, the mandatory 50 mph speed limit....I've been made redundant...not because Union action, but because of government policy...Conservative government policy at that.

And I'm not a child of Thatcher....more like a child of MacMillan!


And to put the record straight regarding Unions......a Union is not a small body of power-seeking people, but the entire membership!

It is the individual member who 'is' the Union.....

and a Union's strength comes from a united membership.

However.... the law forbids the Unions....as well as anybody else [employers]....from exerting any undue influence or any kind upon its members...or others.


So....even though a democratic vote has been taken within a Union....there is little anybody can do...other than appeal....to actually force any Union member to actually comply with what the membership has voted for.


A bit like you lot with speed limits, really?

richardvc

I am a mainline train driver and find it quite insulting about being called unskilled etc

A lot of training and work, study, revision and effort goes into getting your licence which is one of the proudest days of your life - the moment you have been deemed responsible enough to carry passengers on the mainline. The exam I had to take to achieve this was spread over five days and nearly thirty five hours - some pressure eh ?

The learning process is tough and you have to work hard, pass a number of exams and show a real commitment to studying because if you don't the company will soon have somebody else to take your place !

Because of this I believe the salary is commensurate to the responsibility of the job.

I understand that for every 317 people who apply for the job they get one person who eventually becomes a train driver because they do not have the necessary skills either mentally, concentration-wise or physically AND be able to cope with shift-work that includes working a lot of times when you would rather be off !!! All of that that contributes to the salary as well.

You need a certain set of skills that you either have or you don't - excellent concentration, first-class reactions (which are needed to operate the train), an ability to interpret and apply rules and stick to that comewhat-may ! The majority of train drivers are quite similar, good communicators, strong personalities with bags of common sense.

As for everyone who complains that train drivers are paid too much well I can only say 'if you can't beat'em, join'em.'

It's a fabulous job, that satisfies everything that I need from a career. I like working on my own coupled with responsiblity making sure your passengers get to their destination on time and in safety and comfort. We are also paid a lot to know how to deal with difficult situations and how to approach them with calmness and professionalism. I think I'm worth the money !

melancholly

i guess i just don't care any more - too many strikes, for too many days at a time over the last few years.... run out of sympathy. can't stand to listen to bob crow go on any more and until they have someone else in charge, most public sympathy won't come back. (and whatever the arguements are for what is a reasonable salary for a tube/train driver, i can't see that anyone thinks his salary is sensible!)

if you wanted to make the point and make us understand, then i'd say you're too late, years too late..... striking all the time reduces its impact and makes you look awkward and difficult. whether or not that's the truth is now irrelevant. you've lost the war of public opinion and now i can't see the tide turning.

Rolandtheroadie

melancholly wrote: »

i guess i just don't care any more - too many strikes, for too many days at a time over the last few years.... run out of sympathy. can't stand to listen to bob crow go on any more and until they have someone else in charge, most public sympathy won't come back. (and whatever the arguements are for what is a reasonable salary for a tube/train driver, i can't see that anyone thinks his salary is sensible!)

if you wanted to make the point and make us understand, then i'd say you're too late, years too late..... striking all the time reduces its impact and makes you look awkward and difficult. whether or not that's the truth is now irrelevant. you've lost the war of public opinion and now i can't see the tide turning.

Bob Crows nothing to do with ASLEF.

melancholly

scotsman4th wrote: »

Bob Crows nothing to do with ASLEF.

oh ok - didn't realise (haven't paid attention beyond more tube strikes headlines). i guess that's how people react when they feel held to ransom... another tube strike, another union, another mess for us to deal with.....

it's one of those issues about picking battles carefully. when everything results in a strike, everyone just switches off!

mjm3346

torontoboy45 wrote: »

just time for a quick coffee and a look at the latest rant.

'monopoly situation'.

really?

er..cabs..buses..hire bikes from boris..walk.

those nasty tube drivers..

Who said they were nasty? You don't have to be nasty to be overpaid.

What have cabs, buses etc got to do with the monopoly on tube travel?

mjm3346

torontoboy45 wrote: »

oh, and if you're looking for a target to direct your anger at: take a quick look at the employer and wonder if they're pushing their luck (again) with their staff.

'employer good/staff bad'; jeez, what a mentality.

Never said employer was good and it makes no difference good or bad.
The staff are overpaid and taking the benefits into account as well they are vastly overpaid all of which the taxpayer/passenger has to pay for.

The job is childsplay compared to that of a coach driver and certainly worth less money.

Stigy

mjm3346 wrote: »

Who said they were nasty? You don't have to be nasty to be overpaid.

What have cabs, buses etc got to do with the monopoly on tube travel?

I think he meant that if you don't like it, there's always buses, taxis or your legs...

mjm3346 wrote: »

The job is childsplay compared to that of a coach driver and certainly worth less money.

Naive. What on earth gives you that idea? Anybody with a driving licence could probably safely drive a coach...All you need is a bit of spatial awareness and be prepared to take another driving test if you haven't already got a PCV licence. It's much more in-depth to be able to drive a train.

richardvc

mjm3346 wrote: »

The job is childsplay compared to that of a coach driver and certainly worth less money.

By that quote you have proved that you have absolutely no credibility in this argument.

Livingthedream

Stigy wrote: »

Naive. What on earth gives you that idea? Anybody with a driving licence could probably safely drive a coach...All you need is a bit of spatial awareness and be prepared to take another driving test if you haven't already got a PCV licence. It's much more in-depth to be able to drive a train.

Now Now Stigy that a bit unfair and a little bit arrogant of you, driving a train or driving a coach requires specialist training, competency examinations and continual training. As to the responsibilities of each profession both have the ability to injure or kill many if the driver screws up.

As to the in-depth analysis of train driving, yes it is difficult and you need to be focused whilst at the controls but this is just the same whilst you drive a coach.

I don't want to get into a p1ss1ng contest, but IMHO both job are just as difficult.

Ex-coach driver if you hadn't of guessed.