Boxing day tube strikes

Stigy

Livingthedream wrote: »

your just defending the industry that you love. :beer:

I wouldn't go that far, lol....:beer:

JK, I actually do quite like it.:rotfl:

mjm3346

Stigy wrote: »

Ryan was just explaining why the strike was taking place, I don't believe he was trying to 'big it up' or 'justify' it.

I would like to explain it from a drivers point of view

That has to be seen as trying to justify it and if someone from management had come on trying to explain it from their point of view the same would apply.

Hammyman

Stigy wrote: »

The rules of the road remain pretty much the same regardless of what class of vehicle you drive (one exception being speed limits and another being Tachos),

Err, no they don't. Speed limiters and tachos are not just the only difference that seperates car from lorry. In addition to the differences under the RTA, there is also separate legislation applicable to the loads which has to be adhered to including the additional requirements that brings under the RTA such as for oversize width, length and weight. For example, a car can travel along the M25 at any time of the day or night it wants. An abnormal load has a very short window in between peak hours and once you get into London, all lorries are banned between 7pm-7am except for specific routes and with a permit. Then again in London there's the emissions ban which prevents lorries not complying to Euro 3 or 4 spec, I forget which, entering London. Likewise the M60 around Manchester - wide loads are not permitted on it until 10.30am.

So no, the rules of the road are not "pretty much the same", speed limits and tachos excepted, for all classes of road vehicle.

As for "the rules being more stringent", haulage is the most legislated sector in the entire UK when all legislation pertaining and applicable to it is taken into account including RTA, H&S, EU Drivers Hours, national security, hazardous load requirements and the requirements placed on drivers delivering to certain industries. Whilst the haulage sector isn't the most legislated in any one of those, the sheer amount of legislation that applies to the whole of haulage means its the most legislated.

For example, lets take a lorry carrying chemicals. For basics, the chemical company its delivering to has to comply with corporate law, employment tax law, H&S and industry specific law. The haulier delivering to it has to comply with corporate law, employment law, tax law, H&S, the same industry specific laws then in addition, RTA - specifically the requirements for Hazchem, EU Drivers Hours, RTA as applicable to everyone else, O licence compliance.

geordieracer

FlameCloud wrote: »

I cannot wait for the days of DLR - esque driverless trains to arrive and the drivers made redundant. I think the majority of Londoners would support this view.

Incase you have not read anything i have or anyone else has written most tube stock now is automatic anyway.

But as im on me phone i cant reply to the likes of stigy who seems obsessed with mistaking train drivers the same as tube drivers, this strike hits me like this.


1)The union reps were too stupid last round of pay talks to realise that this boxing day dropped on a sunday

Or 2)They knew and left it out of negotiations in a cynical ploy to extract more out of tfl when the time came.


Ill leave you all to make up your own mind.

mjm3346

If management had posted to "explain" then I am sure they they would have been greeted as well.

Tube drivers should receive an increase not just because there are now more bank holidays than when the agreement was made or because their working conditions have got worse over the years (have a look at the state of some of their rest rooms, not the toilets, little more than damp holes at some stations)
The risk of a major incident through catastrophic system failure is increasing as systems become ever more dilapidated and out of date through years of underinvestment in the tube infrastructure.
The potential for loss of life through another attack on the tube system is high will continue to rise through to the completion of 2012 Olympic games.

Stigy

Hammyman wrote: »

Err, no they don't. Speed limiters and tachos are not just the only difference that seperates car from lorry. In addition to the differences under the RTA, there is also separate legislation applicable to the loads which has to be adhered to including the additional requirements that brings under the RTA such as for oversize width, length and weight. For example, a car can travel along the M25 at any time of the day or night it wants. An abnormal load has a very short window in between peak hours and once you get into London, all lorries are banned between 7pm-7am except for specific routes and with a permit. Then again in London there's the emissions ban which prevents lorries not complying to Euro 3 or 4 spec, I forget which, entering London. Likewise the M60 around Manchester - wide loads are not permitted on it until 10.30am.

So no, the rules of the road are not "pretty much the same", speed limits and tachos excepted, for all classes of road vehicle.

I was trying to say that any driver has an idea of what rules apply on the road for the very fact that they hold a driving licence. I stand corrected about just how many differences occur, but the principle whereby the same theory can't be applied to tube trains, remains the same.

geordieracer wrote:

But as im on me phone i cant reply to the likes of stigy who seems obsessed with mistaking train drivers the same as tube drivers, this strike hits me like this.

Strange, I've never realised tubes can be driven....Tube Trains on the other hand...

I'm not mistaking anything here, you just have a constant bee in your bonnet. Lets not argue though, it's Christmas.

geordieracer

Stigy wrote: »

Strange, I've never realised tubes can be driven....Tube Trains on the other hand...

I'm not mistaking anything here, you just have a constant bee in your bonnet. Lets not argue though, it's Christmas.

So your telling me they are not called drivers then? trains cant be driven either by your stupid logic so lets reduce their pay then.

Or are you just being pathetic yet again..

mjm3346 wrote:

If management had posted to "explain" then I am sure they they would have been greeted as well.

Tube drivers should receive an increase not just because there are now more bank holidays than when the agreement was made or because their working conditions have got worse over the years (have a look at the state of some of their rest rooms, not the toilets, little more than damp holes at some stations)
The risk of a major incident through catastrophic system failure is increasing as systems become ever more dilapidated and out of date through years of underinvestment in the tube infrastructure.
The potential for loss of life through another attack on the tube system is high will continue to rise through to the completion of 2012 Olympic games.

so in that instance so should bus drivers and people who work on the national rail system.. but they wont get it either.. And what about the innocent members of the public who will also get caught up in terrorist attacks? will they get a payrise based on the fact that they may be attacked by terrorists?

What about the olympic workers then? Its not even started yet but should they get a payrise?

Also the tube drivers last discussions gave up bank holidays for more pay

ryantcb

geordieracer wrote: »

Incase you have not read anything i have or anyone else has written most tube stock now is automatic anyway.

But as im on me phone i cant reply to the likes of stigy who seems obsessed with mistaking train drivers the same as tube drivers, this strike hits me like this.


1)The union reps were too stupid last round of pay talks to realise that this boxing day dropped on a sunday

When ASLEF entered the last 'pay talks' they realised the country was in recession and accepted TFL's offer and got back to work (as apposed to RMT who took their members on 2, 1 day strike just to accept the original offer anyway).
The reason ASLEF didnt care that boxing day fell on a Sunday this year was they expected TFL to run a "Sunday service" as they do every year. BUT and i'll say it yet again TFL decided they would run and increased service meaning all drivers would be working and that changes the terms of which the original agreement was decided.

Or 2)They knew and left it out of negotiations in a cynical ploy to extract more out of tfl when the time came.

So now your saying we did know and its TFL who were too stupid?


Ill leave you all to make up your own mind.

Why cant people just look at the facts of this strike. Its not about the skills of the job or level of its pay. Its about workers (just like everyone here) taking a united stand against their employers.
1)TFL said they would run a normal sunday service on boxing day and ASLEF agreed that their drivers would take no extra payment for that very reason.
2)TFL decide to screw the agreement and and run an extensive service this boxing day.
3)ASLEF then has a duty to its members to point out to TFL that this breaks the original agreement and therefor voids ASLEF's agreement not to take extra pay.
4)NO ASLEF member wants extra money (triple pay) they want TFL to honour the agreement.
5)With TFL refusing to run a "Sunday service" ASLEF said ok we will work for triple pay. TFL was supposed to counter offer
6)TFL just went to the press and said we was striking for triple pay when we had agreed not to take extra money in 1996.
7)Surely this is TFL trying to have their cake and eat it.
8)Where has your Mayor been during any of the Tube strikes?

geordieracer

ryantcb wrote: »

Why cant people just look at the facts of this strike. Its not about the skills of the job or level of its pay. Its about workers (just like everyone here) taking a united stand against their employers.
1)TFL said they would run a normal sunday service on boxing day and ASLEF agreed that their drivers would take no extra payment for that very reason.
2)TFL decide to screw the agreement and and run an extensive service this boxing day.
3)ASLEF then has a duty to its members to point out to TFL that this breaks the original agreement and therefor voids ASLEF's agreement not to take extra pay.
4)NO ASLEF member wants extra money (triple pay) they want TFL to honour the agreement.
5)With TFL refusing to run a "Sunday service" ASLEF said ok we will work for triple pay. TFL was supposed to counter offer
6)TFL just went to the press and said we was striking for triple pay when we had agreed not to take extra money in 1996.
7)Surely this is TFL trying to have their cake and eat it.
8)Where has your Mayor been during any of the Tube strikes?

I've looked at the facts. Its generally the same as the dispute Northern Rail had with their staff.

as i said before normally i would support you but this time i just dont see it. I dont see no picket lines of you trying to get your point across to the average joe. i see non of you out there waving your banners.
I do see tubes moving though.

]surely its you lot just trying to have your cake and eat it.

!!!! knows where my mayor has been ive been !!!!ing working.

geordieracer

Stigy wrote: »

Strange, I've never realised tubes can be driven....Tube Trains on the other hand...

I'm not mistaking anything here, you just have a constant bee in your bonnet. Lets not argue though, it's Christmas.

Strange how you dont seem to know what your posting from one minute to the other

Stigy wrote: »

I was replying directly to mjm3346, who stated that being a train driver is 'child's play' compared to that of a Coach Driver. Utter rubbish.
.

so you dont think tubes can be driven yet you carry on calling them tube drivers.. Just what is it you mean..