Tesco misprice discussion area part 11

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule

tbw wrote:

Regarding keeping below the radar net by using cash and NOt giving them your clubcard - what do you think about using a debit card from another bank ?

A debit card is still a card and not cash. It's no different to a credit card.

If you want to be anon you use cash and nothing else.

You don't need to do something wrong for a coproration to get arsey with you, which is why lots of people advocate cash/no clubcard/fake name etc.

Plushchris

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule wrote:

A debit card is still a card and not cash. It's no different to a credit card.

If you want to be anon you use cash and nothing else.

You don't need to do something wrong for a coproration to get arsey with you, which is why lots of people advocate cash/no clubcard/fake name etc.

I always use cash, credit cards are the work of the devil!

I also only try to use my clubcard every other visit.

KK himself told me that they cannot see what you have purchased by clubcard alone - it does not show the items

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule

Plushchris wrote:

KK himself told me that they cannot see what you have purchased by clubcard alone - it does not show the items

Your clubcard certainly DOES show what items you have bought.

Thats the whole point of the card, a big database of your shopping habits.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,3604,1573821,00.html
http://scotland.indymedia.org/mod/otherpress/display/427/index.php
http://customer.corante.com/archives/2005/08/07/tesco_triumphs.php

Some links I posted in the last tesco thread.

"With 12 million cards in use in Britain, Tesco can closely watch what its shoppers are purchasing. It then explores linkages between the products people presently buy and the ones they might be persuaded to buy next. “We believe we have one of the largest databases anywhere in the world,” says Martin Hayward of dunnhumby, which handles data management for the company."

KK is obviously a blatant liar.

kondormid

cheekymole wrote:

Wow Kondormid, thanks for that - it will certainly help my case to know all that and I eagerly await your Human Rights info

Enjoy your cuppa

Ok cuppa drank another on its way

Human Rights Act 1998 etc etc.

First off, lets deal with the points and if they have a right to regain the points they gave to you and vouchers blah blah blah....

Part 2 of the Human Rights Act. The First Protocol, Article 1, is called funny enough, "the protection of property".

Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.
The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of a State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure the payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties.

So this basically means that no one has the right to remove someone elses possessions unless they have done something illegal, we call it theft but this enforces it in such a way to say that unless the theft is in the public interest then it is illegal. I wonder if anyone has every informed a car clamper of this after they have towed their car away? Exactly how is it in the public interest that they don't allow you your car back until you have paid a fine? (sorry for going a tad off topic but these are the things that keep me awake at night) "I have the right under part 2 the first protocol article 1 of the human rights act to enjoy my possessions unless it is against the public interest" I might keep that one

Part 1 of the Convention "Rights and Freedoms" states in Article 10...

FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

So this basically means that comming to this web site can not in anyway be used against you. It is part of your "freedom of expression" to recieve and impart ideas. The courts can not make a ruling against you that involves such a freedom unless there is a specific law against it. As far as I know talking about over charges, customer policy and general muck ups by a store is not illegal. So you are just expressing your freedom and as such no one can stop you. Note about the earlier data protection post I made, it is illegal to store data based on a person if the person does not want that data stored.

Watch this

To Tesco PLC and anyone else and any other organisation or individual who deals with Tesco in any name or form, employee or otherwise. Under the data protection acts you have 21 days from the 30/09/06 to remove any data you have on my username as I have not broken any law in just enforcing my right to freedom of expression as per Human Rights act 1998 Part 1 of the Convention "Rights and Freedoms" Article 10.

Totally useless of course but what I have just done is stopped Tesco from keeping a copy of this post, they could pretend they haven't seen it and carry on regardless of course keeping selective other posts But in general I just wanted to show you the data protection law is enforced when coupled with the human rights laws. Needs a bit of work but you get the general idea? Good Eh?

Article 6 says, amongst other things...Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.

OK, reverse a bit to what the "First Protocol Article 1 (the protection of property)" states that "No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law." Now we add to that and finally Article 6 which adds to this "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law." and finally a bit of Article 7 "No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed." and we end up with...

those 3 together say...
No one is allowed to take your stuff unless you have commited a crime, they must prove you have commited a crime and they can not hold you guilty of a crime if it was not a crime (ie, you did nowt wrong, they can not take your points)

I need another cuppa, I am sure I tripped over myself somewhere in all that lot but generally, the law of the land is not allowed to side with any law that would in turn abuse your human rights. IE if you took them to a magistrate for example he would have to take into account that if he sided with Tesco he would effectively be saying you could be punished by removal of property without commiting a crime, as such he is not allowed to do that if it is reminded to him what human rights would be affected.

Out of my depth here so take it up with Liberty etc. I am sure they would love to help you out on this one

Ole1973

I would say that the whole clubcard scheme is/was an inducement of sales .... and therefore as they have used the policy to encourage sales from you - in the goodfaith that you/your gf would get rewards later - and you have not broken any of the rules .... would it be unlawful for them to retract your earnt points/vouchers, arguably? .... in the same way that the "If things don't add up" policy could be viewed as inducing sales and therefore against the law not to honour. (I assume that all your r&rs have been honoured prior to your ban Phil).

ampersand

Obviously goes without saying that they have to justify the reason for removing points and it would be correct to ask for compensation if the points were removed for a reason that is neither illegal or was based on bad data.[/QUOTE]

Think you meant 'neither legal', but agree with you.

mcdonag wrote:

Guys,

I have mulled overnight about this and I guess that we cannot get Taxiphil's missus's points back.

I am surprised, mcdonag - how could this be so?

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule

kondormid wrote:

So this basically means that no one has the right to remove someone elses possessions unless they have done something illegal, we call it theft

Property is theft..

But lets not get into using human rights laws to fight tesco with.

There are people all over the world having their human rights violated in the worst possible way. It makes a sham of the whole concept of those rights if people start using them to do some shopping in tesco.

There are far better ways of sorting this out.

*Sue*

Hi all, just registered today having been following the mis prices tesco thing for ages.

I have had the odd R&R for genuine purchases and never had a problem getting full refund...however I imagine it's a different story with big stuff.

Plushchris, you said :

"KK himself told me that they cannot see what you have purchased by clubcard alone - it does not show the items"

Wonder why he would say this to you?

You know when you get CCvouchers every quarter, or at-the-till coupons? They are ALWAYS tailored to your shopping history, for example if like me you are vegetarian, you wont get money off meat stuff but will off Quorn. So clubcard keep a log of every item purchased. They told me it was so they can send you vouchers for stuff you buy, but I personally believe it's so they can spy on us and use our shopping habits to compile their stastistics.

if you want to remain anonymous, don't use a CC!

Coupon-mad

Thing is though, ARE the points and vouchers your possessions? I thought I had read in the Clubcard T&Cs that 'the clubcard/points remain the possessions of Tesco....' or something like that.

This is only from memory, can anyone find the right bit on the Tesco website?

MyUserNamesTaken

Kondormid, I'm not going to quote your post, as it's really long. However, I will refer you to the terms and conditions of Tesco Clubcard regarding possession. When you sign up to Tesco Clubcard you agree that the clubcard remains the property of Tesco Stores Ltd.

1. The Tesco Clubcard card and Key Fobs are issued by and remain the property of Tesco Stores Limited which reserves the right, at any time without notice, to: (a)terminate the scheme; (b)decline to issue Clubcard cards and Key Fobs; and (c)on reasonable grounds, withdraw or cancel Clubcard cards, Key Fobs or points collected, or to alter or amend the conditions of operation of the Tesco Clubcard scheme. Reasonable grounds include (i) any abuse or attempted abuse of the scheme, or (ii)any use or attempted use of a Clubcard card, Key Fob or points in a manner which is contrary to these terms and conditions or (iii)any reasonable suspicion of dishonesty on the part of a member in connection with the scheme.
2. Members may be removed from the scheme at any time at the discretion of Tesco.
3. You must also spend at least £1 in a single transaction for the transaction to qualify for points. Then one point will be awarded for every £1 that is spent. This can be altered at the discretion of Tesco. Tesco shall be entitled to set a limit on the number of points which may be awarded to each Clubcard account in respect of special promotional items on which additional points are awarded. Tesco shall be entitled at any time to cancel points awarded if the relevant products to which such award relates are returned or cancelled for any reason and a refund of the purchase price is given or if the relevant products are exchanged for other products, unless such exchange is for products with an equivalent points value. Where the relevant products are exchanged for products of a lower points value Tesco shall be entitled to cancel the balance of points between those originally collected and those collected in respect of the replacement products.

By using their right to terminate the clubcard account, the points balance is automatically wiped out, as Phil no longer has a clubcard with Tesco. You cannot use the points on a card if the card as been cancelled, as points are clubcard specific.

Incidentally, if you read through the DPA, you'll see that an organisation is allowed to keep certain data on an individual in order to protect itself against abuse or fraud. If Tesco is saying Phil abused the system and this has resulted in a ban on Phil from all Tesco stores, Tesco is entitled to keep the relevant data on Phil in order to help enforce the ban on him. I've come across this a few times with websites who have banned individuals. They can keep a list of banned individuals IP addresses in order to enforce the ban. The DPA allows for this. Phil has the right to request all information pertaining to him on Tesco's database, including all emails and memos between members of staff discussing him in any way, shape or form (Freedom of Information Act). He can ask for relevant information to be removed (such as purchase history), however, he won't be able to get his personal details removed, as Tesco has banned him from all stores and will be able to argue that his personal details (name, address, etc), are required in order to enforce the ban.

Phil, contact the Information Commissioner's Office.

Here's Tesco's Data Protection Statement:

Data Protection Statement

We would like to use your details from the application form, plus details on how you use your Clubcard and what you buy in our stores, to:

• Help manage Tesco Clubcard and improve the way we run it
• Understand our customers' shopping habits to improve our service
• Unless you indicate otherwise, contact you with offers and information about products and services of interest to you and your family

We will share your details among Tesco companies at home and abroad (e.g. Tesco Personal Finance), and businesses that process Clubcard information on our behalf (e.g. printers who need certain details to print our mailings).
We may also use and share information relating to groups of customers, without identifying individuals, to learn more about customer behaviour and find ways of enhancing our service.

When you sign up for a clubcard, you are agreeing to this.