Old Style Parenting?

kerrypn

And I have just re read your post savvy sue and almost burst into tears-you hit the nail on the head- my DS doesn't "do" love or approval. Thank you again x

Dainty1976

kerrypn wrote: »

Thank you again for your responses.

The curtain incident is beyond me, I am not sure if it was purposeful, although I would tend to think it possibly could be as he does have significant destructive traits, so although I am not saying for definite this was not accidental, due to the other things DS does I think this was probably a reaction to having a priviledge removed before bed ( he was not allowed to crayon after tea as he threw his meal everywhere). I did not react TBH as that often resulted in an escalation and it was v late-I just put the pole back up and took the curtains out to wash.


Hi Kerry,

I dont post very often so I hope you dont mind my two penneth worth but just a tip - (I have recently been through the CAMHS service re: my 5 year old son who was diagnosed as Classic Autistic in August). Get a notebook or diary and literally write down every time he kicks off, what precedes it, how long it lasts, what he does during tantrums, how he calms down, how long its takes him to calm down.... everything. Also, make a note of his other behaviours ie: repetetive actions, reactions to things - good or bad, things he likes to do and doesnt like to do (even the smallest of things that you dont consider a behaviour may be something CAMHS will take note of! I wish I had made a diary before I went through the process, it would have made the whole experience less nervewracking as it would have been easier to recall events specifically - as I'm sure you experience, when its always a drama it kind of all blends into one big nightmare and can be hard to recall specific instances! I did however, make a written list of things he was doing in the months leading up to our first appointment (as and when he did them) and boy did it help on the day, I just whipped out the list and reeled it off. The Clin Psych who you meet with will listen and decide whether its relevant or not - some things I had down were acceptable as age appropriate whereas others were not and they let me know as I went along - which was actually really helpful as I was then able to begin to separate the behaviours and react appropriately to him when I needed to!

My sons Care Co-ordinator constantly bangs on about keeping an ongoing record of behaviours just as an everyday tool to help manage the constant changes and monitor what sets him off, what calms him down and as an aid to trying out new strategies until I hit jackpot and find one that works! I acknowledge that it might be hard to fit such a task in but it could help you immediately and in the long term in coping with him!

I seriously empathise with you and stress (as others have) that you are not a bad mum at all, a bad mum wouldnt worry so much about these issues or do anything about it!

One final tip which may or may not help - my son also sees an Occupational Therapist who from the get go, gave my son chewing toys and even recommended sugar free gum as a calming aid - the difference in his anxiety, restlessness, anger, attention span whilst chewing was and still is instant! I was sceptical at first but now I rely on his "chewy tube" to keep him and calm him down and he loves it. It works! Just a suggestion, but maybe worth trying something along those lines!

Savvy_Sue

kerrypn wrote: »

Thank you to both, I am going to ring CAHMS again in the morning to try and push things along. What is worse is the HV has now written DS off to the school nurse who hasn't met him yet, so I really only have the childrens centre, who are pushing for CAHMS.

Ah, but you have younger children, so you can still contact your HV: just because your son is getting to the top of their age range doesn't mean you can't still go back to her, and howl if need be!

kerrypn wrote: »

@savvy sue-did you find that if you described what DS was doing that was more acceptable than saying "good boy" etc-as DS quite likes it when I say things like "I can see you have lined up x amount of cars and there are x amount of blue ones" etc etc

Well, I had forgotten that but yes, a general comment on what he appeared to be doing was much better than saying how good he was being!

I must admit that even now, none of mine respond particularly well to praise, at least not from me. Visits to either set of grandparents have always been slightly tense affairs, for different reasons, but if I comment afterwards on how well they've done (speaking clearly, making sure they're looking at the deaf ones when they speak etc), I'm told I'm being patronising!

Also if he was hurt, he didn't want to be comforted. I remember when he fell downstairs, aged under 2. I was in the downstairs loo, his dad was in the shower, we both shot out like scalded cats and I tried to cuddle him and check he was OK. He was fighting to get out of my arms, and when I let him go he went straight over to the loo door and shut it - I had failed to do so, and it was ALWAYS kept shut. Once he'd done that he stopped crying: he was more upset about that door being open than about falling downstairs!

I'm going to say something else, and I may be well off the mark here, but if it rings a bell with anyone it will be worth it. I don't think DS1 has EVER said "I love you" to me. You know how you cuddle this little scrap and say "I love you, darling" and they're supposed to say "I love you too Mummy", or they come running up to you after school and fling their arms around you and say "I love you Mummy", or - well you'll have to fill the rest in yourselves because I never had it from DS1.

And you wonder what you've done wrong, really you do, because yours won't say it! And you rationalise it: he loves me really, doesn't he? Well, in the sense that most of us understand it - I have to remember there's a few of you out there who are up there with my son! - no, he doesn't love me. Not because I'm a wicked mother (although I probably am), and not because he's a terrible person (because he isn't), but because his brain is wired differently to mine. He does not have this touchy-feely stuff fluffing up his brain. He does not 'get' love.

That's not to say he doesn't have emotions, but they tend to be more 'concrete' and immediate, if that makes sense. He could be furious and destructive if something didn't go the way he wanted it to, or if someone else intruded in his space or consciousness - breaking his little brother's Lego models became a real problem, as if he couldn't bear anyone else to do Lego like he did.

If you asked him now "Do your parents love you?" I still don't know if he'd understand the question: he knows he gets a good deal from us, that we're supportive without being interfering, so if that's what love looks like then yes, he can probably see that we love him. If you asked him now "Do you love your parents?" I don't know what he'd say, but it would probably lead to a philosophical discussion on the nature of love and whether it's over rated.

Don't get me wrong, he's got lots of good friends, and I know that even without those bits of wiring people still make successful relationships, but to the majority of people it can look a bit strange. But who's to say that those without the fluffy stuff in their brains aren't better off without it?

julie03

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I'm going to say something else, and I may be well off the mark here, but if it rings a bell with anyone it will be worth it. I don't think DS1 has EVER said "I love you" to me. You know how you cuddle this little scrap and say "I love you, darling" and they're supposed to say "I love you too Mummy", or they come running up to you after school and fling their arms around you and say "I love you Mummy", or - well you'll have to fill the rest in yourselves because I never had it from DS1.

?

is this true for all children with aspergers as my son has suspected aspergers but constantly cuddles me and tells me "i love you, your all mine" its like im a possession but he is very cuddly.

and with his temper he told me its only for home, not for school, he is very well thought of at school. after tearing up all his school trip letters yesterday, i have told him he has to ask his teacher for more and tell him why, but he is worried that if his teacher finds out about his temper he will hate him. So now im even more confused!

Savvy_Sue

julie03 wrote: »

is this true for all children with aspergers as my son has suspected aspergers but constantly cuddles me and tells me "i love you, your all mine" its like im a possession but he is very cuddly.

NOTHING is true for all children with aspergers ... :rotfl: indeed the affection can hinder recognition of the problem because some people think that it can't possibly be ... because ...

julie03 wrote: »

and with his temper he told me its only for home, not for school, he is very well thought of at school. after tearing up all his school trip letters yesterday, i have told him he has to ask his teacher for more and tell him why, but he is worried that if his teacher finds out about his temper he will hate him. So now im even more confused!

So he tore up his trip letters? Well, could you write a note just asking for more, you don't have to say what happened. But you should also reassure him that his teacher won't 'hate' him.

It could be very helpful however to make sure the school know that he's 'different' at home. DS1 was very good and quiet at school, but the effort of holding it together was enormous (not that I realised at the time!) and when his teacher DID see him rushing round like a lunatic on one occasion she couldn't believe it was the same child!

Mojisola

Just wanted to say what brilliant, useful posts from you, Savvy_Sue!

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

It could be very helpful however to make sure the school know that he's 'different' at home. DS1 was very good and quiet at school, but the effort of holding it together was enormous (not that I realised at the time!) and when his teacher DID see him rushing round like a lunatic on one occasion she couldn't believe it was the same child!

I would second this - I've been in the position of the teacher. On the first parents' evening of the year, I was talking to a boy's parents about what a lovely lad he was, how helpful and good in class and the parents were getting increasingly uncomfortable. The mother finally asked had I'd mixed them up with some other boy's parents? When they realised I was talking about their son, they were astonished as his behaviour at home was so different.

kerrypn - ditch the thought that you're a bad mother. Look at your other children when you need reassuring.

If what's being suggested by others to help with your son isn't working, stop doing it. Think outside the box and find what works with your son - it doesn't matter if it's not approved of by other people or not recommended by experts!

julie03

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

So he tore up his trip letters? Well, could you write a note just asking for more, you don't have to say what happened. But you should also reassure him that his teacher won't 'hate' him.

the reasoning behind him telling the teacher is to teach him this behaviour is not acceptable, we have reassured him and told him his teacher will think better of him for admitting he has faults, he doesnt like people outside the home knowing his weaknesses, spoke to the sen lady today and she doesnt think its a bad idea

im readint tony attwood at the moment and some of it is spot on with my son, but other things not at all, but learning loads from it.

we have stopped raising our voice to him as even though he can be very vocal he doesnt like it when other people do it (noise sensitivity) so when losing his temper we try just holding him and explaining over and over what he is doing wrong, just saying dont do that just doesnt cut it, he needs to know what "that " is

RoxieW

Sorry havent read the whole thread but why would you let him hit you with a book bag for 10 mins? He's 4. SUrely you can just catch him (if he runs away), take the book bag off of him and tell him off? If he then got angry and had a tantrum leave him to it and ignore. It he hits you firmly hold him away from you and tell him off. If he continues to hit you hold his hands until he stops. Yes it inconvenient. Yes people will stare at you but dont let it get to you. I have had to carry my 5 yr old like a rugby ball under one arm, while pushing a pushchair, up a hill to school while he was kicking and screaming at the top of his lungs. I then had to drag him into the classroom, walk away, leaving him screaming (when I was out of his sight I had a good cry lol). When hes like this I remain as calm as I can, unresposive (as a response from him tends to fuel his fire) and just concentrate on the task in hand. If people stare at me then i really dont care.
I dont agree with smacking as he seems to do enough of this already and if you start doing it to him you are sending mixed messages.
All kids are different. my oldest boy is calm, placid, laid back and kind. My middle boy displays alot of the behaviours you have describes. he's mischievous, hyperactive, pushes the boundries, gets very angry, attention seeks. I deal with the two of them very differently. He does tend to respond well to positive attention, one on one time, sports (mine plays most days - perhaps enrol yours in football club, swimming lessons etc), being outdoors etc. Some time I take him out on the field near our house and let him run wild. He needs to sometimes. I dont jump on and punish every little thing as I put some things dow to his personality But any dangerous or down right disrespectful behaviours meet firm and strict punishment. He would certainly not be running into the road, destroying my property r unrinating in the house. If he did this he would be immediately to his room, no toys, tea or treats and he would remain there for the rest of the day - possibly also the following morning depending on what time of day the incident was. If he screams and trashes his room (which he may) I hold the door shut until he wears himself out. When he is calm and i have spoken to him he would be tidying and mess that he has made. I know these punishemnts are inconvienient and time/effort consuming esp with other young children in the house but it has to be done.
ALso, at the end of the 'one of those days' poor yourself a big glass of wine, go have a little cry in the bath and remind yourself of all your little boys good qualities

princesstippytoes

julie03 wrote: »

this is very understandable as my son does it to me not quite to the extremes of the OPs son only today i have had a bag of potatoes thrown at me and had my arms scratched, this was because he was asked to take his netbook to the kitchen so he created when told off again this was when he started throwing things and screaming blue murder

Under those circumstances I would have removed the netbook and told him that he would not get it back until he had thought about his actions and apologised properly for his behaviour and then warn him that any more behaviour of that kind and he could say a permanent goodbye to the netbook. I would mean it too. If a parent makes a ''threat'' then they got to be prepared to carry it through.

Mojisola

I think there are two messages coming through here - some suggesting what will help with "ordinary" naughtiness and others giving advice if there is problem such as autism or Asperger's. What will work with a child just pushing the boundaries will not necessarily work with a child whose brain is wired differently - it will sometimes make things worse.