Metro Penalty Fare Notice

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

Also taffy056 just where does it state in life that you can break the law? Id love it if you could find me a bit of British legislation - even worldwide - where it says you can break the law..


i await your answer to this question with baited breath.

And where did I say its okay to break the law ? All i'm saying the rules around situations like this are not right, laws and rules are changed all the time, its obviously time to look at this and alter the rules to involve the parents straight away.

Also lets face it most people who drive break the law daily, you go 1mph over the speed limit and you've broken the law, using the logic that you are using here people should get a £60 fine and 3 points on their licence.

The fact is there are a lot of laws that are stupid, that is why they are changed, the rule around issuing a child a penalty notice should be looked at, that doesn't mean i'm endorsing breaking the law.

Now I await your answer with baited breathe

Hadeon

I take it then, that in principle, some contributors to this thread would consider it ok for the police to interview little Johnny or little Sarah for an offence, issue them with an FPN & keep the parents out of the loop?

dizzybuff

Hadeon wrote: »

I take it then, that in principle, some contributors to this thread would consider it ok for the police to interview little Johnny or little Sarah for an offence, issue them with an FPN & keep the parents out of the loop?

An offender under the age of 17 and over the age of 10 can be issued with a FPN ( Of which this penalty is not ) FPNS are issued to Offenders who have committed an offence under criminal law and they would be arrested before their parents were contacted.

This Offence is covered by a by law , the same as urinating in public ( However the police would probably contact the parents again)

This was NOT enforced by the police. She was not arrested as it is is unlawful and punishable but not recordable under HOCR.

The revenue protecter obviously thought the child was olfd enough and responsible enough to take the ticket home to their parents .

Yes its not an ideal way , if the OP is so bothered complain, but I seriously doubt the OP will be sucessful. Plus I really do not think the op WOULD have wanted her daughter to be arrested and taken to a police station , popped into a cell untill she could get there, then interviewed under caution and eventually issued the fine by a police officer , all this scaring the hell of of her daughter , wasting valuable police resources and her time equally.

Paying the fine ( even if you disagree with it ) it the best form of resolution . Make the daughter pay ( at the OPs discression , but mine may possibly be down the mines or chimney sweep) for the duration , with a payment plan would be adequate so the daughter can see actually how much work it would take to earn the money , along with a few more luxeries removed from her posession.

What ever the OP decides to do , please make up your mind soon and let us know the outcome as this its now hurting my head .

Diz

taffy056

Looking at a few websites in regards to PFNs is eye opening, for a start the pfn is not enforceable unless the company involved sues and the court says it is, the so called independent appeals are run by a rail company, one company made £32m last year in pfn's (major cash cow), a certain company actually judges performances of their employees by the number of pfn's issued.

And the major thing for these people issuing them, they are on commision, sounds to me just like the ppc employees who issue their scam tickets, is it any wonder the employee of a rail company above is rabidly for this ?

Coupon-mad

macthemountie wrote: »

4 weeks later we received a letter saying the fine had not been paid within the 21 days and therefore the right to appeal was lost and they had added a £30 admin fee on to the original £20 fine.

I emailed them and said I was not happy that they had not wrote to me first, as her parent/legal guardian seeing as she was a minor? Also, they were aware of her age at the time and she gave them her correct address and details etc.

I also told them that I found their admin fee unfair, unreasonable and unenforceable. They wrote back ignoring that part and said the £50 needed to be paid within 14 days etc.

Should they not have automatically wrote of to a minors parents in the first place because my daughter has no means of income bearing in mind she is still at school. How was she meant to pay it.

I was thinking of sending in payment for the original £20 for the offence of having no ticket because she did not have one on her possession.

I have been reading this thread, off and on over several days, with interest.

FWIW I have to agree with macthemountie and taffy056 in their point of view.

No-one is saying it's OK to break the law. But why is it OK to issue a fine to a minor, not write to the parents to give them the right of appeal - but then finally write to the parents when a hefty admin fee has been added? How in law does a minor have a 'right of appeal' I wonder, without the right to representation of an adult...?

I have a 15 year old daughter and I work in a senior school as well - so I am not just commenting from my own kids' point of view. I know that even the most intelligent and good kids are prone to bury their heads in the sand about things and not tell their parents in the hope an issue will go away. It's human nature at that age.

That system is an @ss IMHO and I would have paid the £20, got my daughter to do chores to pay that part back, and face a Court over the enforceability of the 'admin fee'. Do they actually call it an admin fee, wonder how that's broken down?

It's only when people like macthemountie stand up for themselves and question stupid systems like this, that laws and rules are changed. This system seems flawed and macthemountie has every right to question it - all she was suggesting was a letter home to the parents at the earliest opportunity, not as a last resort to allow for more money to be added.

geordieracer

Coupon-mad wrote: »

No-one is saying it's OK to break the law. But why is it OK to issue a fine to a minor, not write to the parents to give them the right of appeal - but then finally write to the parents when a hefty admin fee has been added? How in law does a minor have a 'right of appeal' I wonder, without the right to representation of an adult...?

I

im only going to answer this point because the rest of what you say is drivel..


So now she is a minor yet her parents let her go out on her own, travel on a train and not pay the fare but for some reason her age is now a contributing factor in trying to worm out of paying the fare.

Crap.

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

im only going to answer this point because the rest of what you say is drivel..


So now she is a minor yet her parents let her go out on her own, travel on a train and not pay the fare but for some reason her age is now a contributing factor in trying to worm out of paying the fare.

Crap.

Can I ask are you a wheel clamper on the side ? What you are spouting is just complete and utter drivel, anyone who disagrees with you is subject to a barrage of abuse, I think you must do well in your chosen proffesion, do they teach you people's skills in your job, or is it not needed ?

geordieracer

taffy056 wrote: »

Can I ask are you a wheel clamper on the side ? What you are spouting is just complete and utter drivel, anyone who disagrees with you is subject to a barrage of abuse, I think you must do well in your chosen proffesion, do they teach you people's skills in your job, or is it not needed ?

My job is very difficult. not only do i have to spell words correctly i also have to deal with people who do not like the truth.


truth 1 - her daughter was caught without a valid ticket

truth 2 - her daughter hid this from her mother and thus has now got an extra penalty because of this

truth 3 - no matter how you try and wrangle out of this it will not work

truth4 -

Looking at a few websites in regards to PFNs is eye opening, for a start the pfn is not enforceable unless the company involved sues and the court says it is, the so called independent appeals are run by a rail company, one company made £32m last year in pfn's (major cash cow), a certain company actually judges performances of their employees by the number of pfn's issued.

And the major thing for these people issuing them, they are on commision, sounds to me just like the ppc employees who issue their scam tickets, is it any wonder the employee of a rail company above is rabidly for this ?]

everything you say in this paragraph is false. we would not have to employ other people to enforce the fares if we did not have fare dodgers. the penalty fare notice is enforceable because it is a BYE LAW and thus is enforceable by the LAWS of this country.And we have taken many people to court to recover money owed.

And no i am not a wheel clamper I am a person who wants everyone to pay for their ticket to travel.. Do you think there is something wrong with that?Im not being abusive to anyone apart from those who think it is ok to evade paying the fare for their journey..

Techno

taffy056 wrote: »

And where did I say its okay to break the law ?

Also lets face it most people who drive break the law daily, you go 1mph over the speed limit and you've broken the law, using the logic that you are using here people should get a £60 fine and 3 points on their licence.

Ahhh now if you had lived or visited North Wales in the halcyon days of Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom you very well might have got 3 points and a £60 fine for being 1mph over the speed limit :A

geordieracer

taffy056 wrote: »

Okbviously you are missing the point here, I'm not endorsing breaking the law, what i'm saying is that the rules are an a**e where this concerned, they need to be changed to involve the parents straight away when such things occur, i'm sorry its beyond your comprehension , but for someone looking at this without the bias , they can see yes its unlawful not to have a ticket, but to rely on a child to do the right thing speaks to me of flawed system, and by the way just because its been in place for many years it doesn't make it perfect !

Nothing is beyond my comprehension.

Did her daughter have a valid ticket? No.

she is also not a child in the eyes of the law when they are over the age of criminal responsibility..


it appears that you are the one who cant comprehend what is right and what is wrong and dont know the law from your !!!