Metro Penalty Fare Notice

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

truth4 -

everything you say in this paragraph is false. we would not have to employ other people to enforce the fares if we did not have fare dodgers. the penalty fare notice is enforceable because it is a BYE LAW and thus is enforceable by the LAWS of this country.And we have taken many people to court to recover money owed.

And no i am not a wheel clamper I am a person who wants everyone to pay for their ticket to travel.. Do you think there is something wrong with that?Im not being abusive to anyone apart from those who think it is ok to evade paying the fare for their journey..

You are speaking garbage, I back up my claims with verifiable facts, really do some research before spouting your rubbish

TfL collects £32m in Oyster card penalty fares
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23488225-tfl-collects-32m-in-oyster-card-penalty-fares.do

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23731140-fare-dodgers.do

Stagecoach's South West Trains, sparked outrage when it started judging its guards' job performance by the number of penalty fare warnings they issued.

9 Remember: penalty fares are a civil, not a criminal-matter.

Train companies often scare people into paying up by threatening prosecution and a criminal record. However, the legislation establishing penalty fares, the Railways Act 1993, section 130, states that apart from failing to give your right name and address, "nothing in this section creates, or authorises the creation of any [criminal] offence". The Penalty Fares Regulations 1994 state that "the recovery of a penalty fare is a civil debt". So even if after reading your letter the company still decides it wants the money, it has to sue you - probably not worthwhile for such a small sum.


Penalty Fares Policy
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legislation/pf/penaltyfarespolicya?page=7

IPFAS is managed by Connex SouthEastern Ltd

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legislation/pf/penaltyfarespolicya?page=6
Some operators also pay staff a small amount of commission (typically 5%) on the value of the penalty fares charged.

geordieracer

taffy056 wrote: »

You are speaking garbage, I back up my claims with verifiable facts, really do some research before spouting your rubbish

TfL collects £32m in Oyster card penalty fares
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23488225-tfl-collects-32m-in-oyster-card-penalty-fares.do

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23731140-fare-dodgers.do

Stagecoach's South West Trains, sparked outrage when it started judging its guards' job performance by the number of penalty fare warnings they issued.

9 Remember: penalty fares are a civil, not a criminal-matter.

Train companies often scare people into paying up by threatening prosecution and a criminal record. However, the legislation establishing penalty fares, the Railways Act 1993, section 130, states that apart from failing to give your right name and address, "nothing in this section creates, or authorises the creation of any [criminal] offence". The Penalty Fares Regulations 1994 state that "the recovery of a penalty fare is a civil debt". So even if after reading your letter the company still decides it wants the money, it has to sue you - probably not worthwhile for such a small sum.


Penalty Fares Policy
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legislation/pf/penaltyfarespolicya?page=7

IPFAS is managed by Connex SouthEastern Ltd

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legislation/pf/penaltyfarespolicya?page=6
Some operators also pay staff a small amount of commission (typically 5%) on the value of the penalty fares charged.

I know exactly what im on about.. Thats why i gave advice because i work in the industry. You dont..

Yet you dont show me something where someone has successfully wormed their way out of the penalty fare..Whether they are old or young.

you want to be clever go ahead. your failing.

again in case you just forgot about it, she did not have a ticket for her journey. She got caught. She pays the price?

Are you still going to argue the point?

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

Nothing is beyond my comprehension.

Did her daughter have a valid ticket? No.

she is also not a child in the eyes of the law when they are over the age of criminal responsibility..


it appears that you are the one who cant comprehend what is right and what is wrong and dont know the law from your !!!

Its already been established she did not have a ticket, what people are saying is that the parents should have been informed of this, not after the 21 days but before an admin fee has been added!

The second point is that a PFN is not a criminal offence, so your point is not relevant

I know what right and wrong is I wonder if you do? questioning the rules and regulations around this is classed by you as me failing to do so, the rules are an a**e around this, and should be changed, if it effects your commission its tough

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

I know exactly what im on about.. Thats why i gave advice because i work in the industry. You dont..

Really it appears you don't, try reading the post and links above

Yet you dont show me something where someone has successfully wormed their way out of the penalty fare..Whether they are old or young.

They are out there, try doing a search on google, you know research!

you want to be clever go ahead. your failing.

I am not trying to be clever, I am just backing up my arguments with facts!

again in case you just forgot about it, she did not have a ticket for her journey. She got caught. She pays the price?

No her parents pay the price because she is not capable of paying a PFN

Are you still going to argue the point?

Yes because the rules around this are plainly wrong, anybody who doesn't rely on PFN as an income generator can see, how much commission do you get, must be a bit by the way you are defending it so much

Hope the above answer helps you

geordieracer

taffy056 wrote: »

Its already been established she did not have a ticket, what people are saying is that the parents should have been informed of this, not after the 21 days but before an admin fee has been added!

The second point is that a PFN is not a criminal offence, so your point is not relevant

I know what right and wrong is I wonder if you do? questioning the rules and regulations around this is classed by you as me failing to do so, the rules are an a**e around this, and should be changed, if it effects your commission its tough

I give up.. Do you know what a bye law is?

I know all the rules and regs i work in the industry..

IT IS NOT A PFN- PENALTY FARE NOTICE.IT IS A PENALTY FARE.

The rules are not an !!!! the rules state from years gone by when it used to be state owned - If you do not have a valid ticket for travel when requested to produce it then you will be subject to a £20 fine or the full single fare to the next station - which ever is greater.


DO YOU UNDERSTAND???

In fact i give up.. many others have agreed but your obviously someone who wants to worm their way out of paying.

Good luck

Livingthedream

taffy056 wrote: »

9 Remember: penalty fares are a civil, not a criminal-matter.

Train companies often scare people into paying up by threatening prosecution and a criminal record. However, the legislation establishing penalty fares, the Railways Act 1993, section 130, states that apart from failing to give your right name and address, "nothing in this section creates, or authorises the creation of any [criminal] offence". The Penalty Fares Regulations 1994 state that "the recovery of a penalty fare is a civil debt". So even if after reading your letter the company still decides it wants the money, it has to sue you - probably not worthwhile for such a small sum.

Correct, however, the Railway companies ain't daft and have a fail safe means to get you, they will cancel the penalty fare or unpaid fare notice and issue a summons under;

i) the strict liability offence of 'Fail to show a valid ticket' contrary to National Railway Byelaw 18.1 (2005)

or

ii) 'intent to avoid a rail fare' contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)

Which both are a criminal offence and are dealt with in a magistrates court.

Its too good a cash cow for the railway's to give up and as you rightly stated most people are intimidated into paying out rightly or wrongly.

geordieracer

macthemountie wrote: »

:mad:

Hi Guys,

we received a letter through the post from IRCAS who deal with fines handed out for travelling on the Metro without a valid ticket. My daughter who was 15 years old had bought a ticket and gave it to her friend to keep in her back pocket as she was wearing leggings and had no where to keep it.

Anyhow, she was asked to show her ticket at the Haymarket station and her friend could not find it. She was told she had to be giving a penalty notice and could write in and explain the situation.

As usual, she was scared to come home and tell us and kept it quiet. 4 weeks later we received a letter saying the fine had not been paid within the 21 days and therefore the right to appeal was lost and they had added a £30 admin fee on to the original £20 fine.

I emailed them and said I was not happy that they had not wrote to me first, as her parent/legal guardian seeing as she was a minor? Also, they were aware of her age at the time and she gave them her correct address and details etc.

I also told them that I found their admin fee unfair, unreasonable and unenforceable. They wrote back ignoring that part and said the £50 needed to be paid within 14 days etc.

Should they not have automatically wrote of to a minors parents in the first place because my daughter has no means of income bearing in mind she is still at school. How was she meant to pay it.

I was thinking of sending in payment for the original £20 for the offence of having no ticket because she did not have one on her possession. Whether she had bought a one in the first place is anybodys guess because yes my daughter tells the odd porkie, dont all teenage kids 0:}

ANy suggestions would be helpful.

Cheers. :T

I retract all my advice. It is wrong.. you can carry on travelling without a ticket for ever.. taffy told me so.

geordieracer

Livingthedream wrote: »

Correct, however, the Railway companies ain't daft and have a fail safe means to get you, they will cancel the penalty fare or unpaid fare notice and issue a summons under;

i) the strict liability offence of 'Fail to show a valid ticket' contrary to National Railway Byelaw 18.1 (2005)

or

ii) 'intent to avoid a rail fare' contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)

Which both are a criminal offence and are dealt with in a magistrates court.

Its too good a cash cow for the railway's to give up and as you rightly stated most people are intimidated into paying out rightly or wrongly.

Its not a cash cow though.. We have to employ the people to issue penalty fares and then follow them up that costs money. If people did not try and dodge the fare then we wouldn't have to employ them,.

hiring staff costs money you know.

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

I give up.. Do you know what a bye law is?

Yes

I know all the rules and regs i work in the industry..

Really, so you know all the rules, that would be a first that someone knows ALL regs to the job they are doing!

IT IS NOT A PFN- PENALTY FARE NOTICE.IT IS A PENALTY FARE.

The £30 is a penalty fare notice

The rules are not an !!!! the rules state from years gone by when it used to be state owned - If you do not have a valid ticket for travel when requested to produce it then you will be subject to a £20 fine or the full single fare to the next station - which ever is greater.


DO YOU UNDERSTAND???

Yes perfectly

In fact i give up.. many others have agreed but your obviously someone who wants to worm their way out of paying.

I think you are getting your facts wrong, I am not the OP, and I don't use trains

Good luck

Thanks and you too

taffy056

geordieracer wrote: »

I retract all my advice. It is wrong.. you can carry on travelling without a ticket for ever.. taffy told me so.

Where did I tell you that?